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ThatGuy

[Nature] Ley Lines

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If you look at Nature magic by itself, it's not that it's "weak". It's that compared to something like compulsion magic, it's not as universal.

 

If I had some more free time, I'd find a kind of way to scale the usefulness of a spell in my own opinion, heheh.

 

If it can be used on PCs in a game, AND some NPCs, it's FAR more useful than something that just targets a handful of NPCs. For this reason alone, I think compulsion magic is one of the best schools, followed by Battle magic... simply for universal usability. Even at night, when people are saying "undead come out at night, compulsion is useless" ...erm... no it's not since EVERYONE who plays a PC is ALIVE (or so I hope).

 

It's also a matter of... do I want to spend the points on this particular Nature spell, or would I get "more for my money" so-to-speak if I went with...say... an aegis spell that could be more useful. Even if it doesn't really do the same thing.

 

I guess it's all relative. A hand grenade is a great weapon. Not so much when you're trying to take out a sniper from a mile away. On the flipside, a sniper rifle is a great weapon, but not so much when there's a mob of 50 crazy people attacking at you. The kicker is... how often is someone trying to snipe you from a mile away vs. how many mobs of people have you been around that you want them all to drop dead :) It's a matter of usefulness and versatility.

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Maybe Nature magic sucks because the Elemental got kicked out of the Sept. I bet it was the hottest school around back about 400 years ago. Now its about as useful as a god in a mortal's body.

 

Though I'd have to agree with Hivemind on this topic. This is a classless system, and I dont think there is any obligation to make the schools of magic completely balanced with each other. Its not like someone is playing the Druid class and can only take Nature spells or something. I'd argue that specializing in one school is foolish anyway....but my character is trying to be a Master Compulsionst. Its fun playing a character that fills a niche, and not a character that is great for every situation.

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The spell I suggested was more to get the conversation started then to actually be allowed. Job done.

 

Mend Armor = awesome

 

No argument there at all.

 

Grounding = situational, but awesome

 

Again, no argument.

 

Dissipate = awesome

 

Very much in agreement. There is a reason Dissipate potions are so popular.

 

Repel Insects = teh sucks. We don't have enough insect costumes or powerful enough insect monsters for this to matter.

 

Very much blows goats ass. A replacement would be nice.

 

Elemental Dart = necessary, but maybe a little weak. Might need a bump to two darts, four for Doodads.

 

I'd agree to that with no argument, especially considering it's 1 dart for 3 power, as it stands.

 

Elemental Binding = situationally teh win

 

I can think of a few times this would be useful, mostly when knocking a greater elemental out of phase to pwn it's minions, -then- deal with the greater.

 

Elemental Weapon = teh win

 

Agreed very much so. I've never had an agrument about this spell or how it works.

 

Elemental Command = situationally teh win

 

If you are throwing around mixed bags of opposing elementals or elementals with other creature types they can hurt, then I agree fully.

 

Ley Lines = generally thought of as cool, but apparently not universally

 

Eh. After having read some of the posts on it, it could be better, but I'm not going to argue any more about it in specific. I still see it as more of a speed bump.

 

Elemental Immunity = might need a buff, in view of the "cool stuff can down-call their damage" argument. Might have to revisit that mechanic.

 

It's that down-calling mechanic that actually makes Elemntal weapon so useful when fighting mixed bags of elementals.

 

But when you stand it up to other schools that are "good" to "awesome" at levels 1-5 and in most situations, that's where Nature starts looking a little...soft in the underbelly. I know it's supposed to be a situational school. I'm cool with that. Just for Pete's sake let us be the best at our chosen venture.

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[/lurk]

Can you guys make it so that PCs can call down, but NPCs cannot (except it the case of a "hero-class" enemy like High Fae or the Alcarn)? This might solve the problem without rewriting that mechanic. It'd also be an incentive to send NPCs out with specific damage types, since they'd be "stuck" with them and PCs could find ways around them.

[lurk]

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I propose this idea with only half seriousness.... but there are a lot of people in game, and a small percentage of them might even have some cool ideas.... maybe we could have some kind of "contest" in the future, just for fun, to see what people would come up with as alternate spells, or additions to spells in the current 7 schools of magic?

 

(or maybe even adding spells for schools of magic not yet invented, eg. dark gods or draconus?)

 

Just putting this out there. It might be fun to see what people come up with. .. and hey, maybe a GM will see something cool to replace "repel insects" with. Who knows?

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I still hate Waspoids. Repel Insects would have been so very useful, seeing that four waspoids attacked us.

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I propose this idea with only half seriousness.... but there are a lot of people in game, and a small percentage of them might even have some cool ideas.... maybe we could have some kind of "contest" in the future, just for fun, to see what people would come up with as alternate spells, or additions to spells in the current 7 schools of magic?

 

(or maybe even adding spells for schools of magic not yet invented, eg. dark gods or draconus?)

 

Just putting this out there. It might be fun to see what people come up with. .. and hey, maybe a GM will see something cool to replace "repel insects" with. Who knows?

Uhh... You're new, so I forgive you, but that's what all these subforums in the Rules forum are. When we did 3rd Edition in February of 2008, these forums were created to allow everyone to have input into the rules as we were rewriting them.

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I mean, these forums are here for rules discussion all the time. If you've got a suggestion, like Phil did here, post away.

 

Just expect the GMs to be resistant to changes between editions.

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Yeah, I don't mean to start changing rules or anything. I guess I just meant that I'd like to see what people would come up with as far as adding for new spells and such. Perhaps this is better fit for the "wouldn't it be cool if..." topic. :rolleyes:

 

I don't think anyone's requesting changes be made immediately, or anything. In the distant future, when a new edition is on the horizon, you can just point back to the thread and say "so and so had a most triumphant idea for a spell back in september" :blink:

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As you can tell by how long this thread is, we actually like discussing this stuff, we just don't want to change things on a whim. That doesn't help anyone but we will change things, eventually.

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For the record: I dont want to change anything :blink:

 

I don't have any nature magic over dissipate, and I love leylines the way it is.

 

I've just been chiming in to point out the different sides of peoples' stories.

 

Lol... I don't want the topic to derail to "Dren wanted to change the entire magic system and he's only been to one game!" >_:rolleyes:

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Very much blows goats ass. A replacement would be nice.

 

Maybe a "Control Forest Creature" spell, similar to "Control Lesser Undead". Would allow control of Bog Lurkers, Oozes, Gorillas, Yetis, Puppet Weed, Waspoids, Buzzers, and Yeb? That may be too powerful, I dunno. Just putting it out there as a possibility.

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Maybe a "Control Forest Creature" spell, similar to "Control Lesser Undead". Would allow control of Bog Lurkers, Oozes, Gorillas, Yetis, Puppet Weed, Waspoids, Buzzers, and Yeb? That may be too powerful, I dunno. Just putting it out there as a possibility.

 

What about a 'Suppress Instinct" spell, that pins/stuns those creatures, with them breaking free if hurt?

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sounds pretty much just like a "Sleep" spell we had awhile back. it was ridiculous.

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No, compulsion works on intelligent beings. This would work on things too dumb to take commands, and nothing more intelligent than "animal" level. And as far as a "sleep" effect... I was just throwing out an alternative to the command idea, which seems overpowered. I suppose fear or disengage type effects could also work, I'm just spitballing here :rolleyes:

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More or less true, lurker.

 

What if we changed repel insects, elemental binding, and elemental command?

 

I'm picturing all three of them working on beasts, plants, elementals, but nothing above animal intelligence.

 

I'd call the repel 2 darts for ten minutes, the binding one dart, and I'd make command one dart but bump it to game day. Make Nature mages the "pet" class. There's a multitude of problems with that approach, but wouldn't it be cool? :rolleyes:

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Maybe a "Control Forest Creature" spell, similar to "Control Lesser Undead". Would allow control of Bog Lurkers, Oozes, Gorillas, Yetis, Puppet Weed, Waspoids, Buzzers, and Yeb? That may be too powerful, I dunno. Just putting it out there as a possibility.

 

...I like. Might never cast it, but it's infinitely more useful then the current offering. And the only reason I'm suggesting ditching Repel Insects is that, as Dave said, the offerings that the spell affects are sorely lacking. If, I don't know, Yeb or Waspoids where scarier, then it might be worth keeping.

 

Yeb have the potential to be down right terrifying, if used properly. The problem is we only have one type of Yeb in game at the moment, and to be honest, it's kinda lacking. I know I'm not the only one that feels that way. I've got a few ideas how to spruce them up a bit and make people again worry about Yebs, as I know there is at least one other person with a damn good idea how to change them. If you want to know, feel free to FPM me.

 

Waspoids are a sticker situation just simply because the masks are terrible. I can hardly fight with it on in the daytime, let alone night. I love the idea of Waspoids as the Alien style threat, impregnating people with their eggs so that their young can eat their way out. If done properly, that should scare just about any PC. Problem is, they rarely get a chance to due to the masks sucking ass. I've got an idea on how to change the masks to make them about 100% more scary. That should help a bunch.

 

-That- is the big problem with the bugs. Only Buzzers, IMHO, are easy to fight as because of the costuming requirements, but we all know how damn militant those Buzzers are...

 

But yes, a spell like that would be great. Just promise me it'll be called "Control Lowlife". <.>

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A. probably never going to happen

B. you're welcome to get on the costumes and join (rejoin?) the props working group.

C. if we made it, I'd name all three spells "Stupid Dren wanted to change the entire magic system and he's only been to one game!"

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A. probably never going to happen

 

What's not? Either suggestion is fine by me.

 

B. you're welcome to get on the costumes and join (rejoin?) the props working group.

 

I've been talking with at least one person on Props about my ideas, but maybe you are right and I should try to lend a hand there as well. And what if I wanted to make a suggested addition or two to the monster thingy? How would I go about suggesting things for that?

 

C. if we made it, I'd name all three spells "Stupid Dren wanted to change the entire magic system and he's only been to one game!"

 

Wow, that's an incant all on it's own.

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The two reasons it's probably never going to happen like that are:

A. game day duration

and

B. logistics loses an NPC while you dilly-dally around with a pet.

 

 

If you want to get on a working group, just talk to that group's marshal. That person will decide if you're competent and useful enough for their team.

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