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ThatGuy

[Nature] Ley Lines

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Isnt this what happens when Necros control undead? Keep the duration to 10mins of control and I think it would work as a pet option. Add in that it can only be controlled once per game day? That way u dont have someone just recasting it after 10 mins. Or is that what it is now? If so just expanding the creatures affected would balance it I believe.

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At the moment, elemental command is ten minutes, but except for this metaplot, elementals are few and far between.

 

Perhaps we could just change it to "Command Nature" and include plants and a few dumb animals... hmm.

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WHEN is part of the problem. I can't tell you how tempted I've been to change my PC shifts so I can actually get involved in the war, rather then cleaning up messes. I hardly ever see any of the plot that's going on out there, but that's another story. And I'm ok with monsters coming into game that any PC can fight, I'd just like to see more things for the specialists to do.

I have all 7 Ritual skills. I have not once conducted or taken part in a ritual. That's OK with me because I know that gms don't design plots for specialists very often. That's WHY we're called specialists. 9 times out of 10 a plot should NOT include stuff for a specialist to do.

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I have all 7 Ritual skills. I have not once conducted or taken part in a ritual. That's OK with me because I know that gms don't design plots for specialists very often. That's WHY we're called specialists. 9 times out of 10 a plot should NOT include stuff for a specialist to do.

 

Dude, it's a whole metaplot with things in it for me to do, but none of it happens the shifts I PC. All the meaty Elemental War stuff happens during my NPC shifts. This metaplot, in some ways, -is- a specialist's plot. So why the hell shouldn't I be able to get involved. That's like asking Nasri to -not- become involved when the undead attack Pinedale. It's insanity! I got the short end of the stick this season despite the fact I'm a specialist in the field the metaplot was designed for, but I'm not letting it stop me from having fun. I'll be back next season, elementals or no.

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Dude, it's a whole metaplot with things in it for me to do, but none of it happens the shifts I PC. All the meaty Elemental War stuff happens during my NPC shifts. This metaplot, in some ways, -is- a specialist's plot. So why the hell shouldn't I be able to get involved. That's like asking Nasri to -not- become involved when the undead attack Pinedale. It's insanity! I got the short end of the stick this season despite the fact I'm a specialist in the field the metaplot was designed for, but I'm not letting it stop me from having fun. I'll be back next season, elementals or no.

I know that, and I do feel sorry you got the short end. Sorry if I seem like I'm yellin at ya...I guess my tone has been somewhat harsh.

 

I actually don't understand why elemental stuff hasn't happened at night. I've gone out as an Earth and Water elemental in the dark earlier on this season. I guess I thought you were griping cuz you weren't having fun, but if you are then cool.

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I'm sure, now that we have a ton of elemental costumes, that you'll see them more frequently even after this season's Elemental War metaplot ends.

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Woot! I loves me some elementals. But my annoyance still stands at having seen maybe 1/10th of the Elemental War plot. But I've made this gripe known to the GM staff for the past 4 or so months, and I have faith that they won't leave me utterly out of the end of it.

 

But thank you for understanding, Brian. I am having a bunch of fun, mostly because I've had a bunch of personal plot stuff happen, and Gaius really is taking on a life of his own. He's gone far a field from where I wanted him to go, but like a writer's favorite characters, LARP PCs do tend to run off on their creators and do things you never thought they would do.

 

BUT we should really get back on topic. I'd love to hear thoughts on the suggested new or modified Nature spells. Or hell, suggest some of your own!

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Now that I'm re-reading some of these posts, I'm trying to draw myself back to the fact that the game is a roleplaying game.

 

If skills aren't balanced, and plot doesn't happen to fall into your lap or whatever,... then that shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the game. The real purpose of the game is to immerse yourself as your character and interact.

 

We can all say "I'd like this skill better if it did this or this..." but to complain or get frustrated over game mechanics, even jokingly, is a redflag that we need to do a quick ...um... game check (i was about to say reality check... heheh).

 

The game should be able to be just as fun with NO skills or spells and just roleplaying and swinging swords. :lol:

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Now that I'm re-reading some of these posts, I'm trying to draw myself back to the fact that the game is a roleplaying game.

 

If skills aren't balanced, and plot doesn't happen to fall into your lap or whatever,... then that shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the game. The real purpose of the game is to immerse yourself as your character and interact.

 

We can all say "I'd like this skill better if it did this or this..." but to complain or get frustrated over game mechanics, even jokingly, is a redflag that we need to do a quick ...um... game check (i was about to say reality check... heheh).

 

The game should be able to be just as fun with NO skills or spells and just roleplaying and swinging swords. :lol:

 

You are indeed correct sir, this is a roleplaying game. And games, like it or not, have mechanics. Some of us take mechanics -very- seriously (to the point of min-maxing), and some of us take them not so seriously (to the point of taking skills because they sound fun). I like to think I fit somewhere in the middle. I see rules as a necessary thing for everyone involved to have fun, but they should be balanced so that it is fun for everyone involved. If things are not balanced, we'll end up with a bunch of cookie cutter character sheets where everyone has the same abilities, are afraid to diversify, and you'll have a ton of basically the same PC running around, on paper and off. I've seen what happens in games where the rules are not balanced. I used to play in various salon LARPs and online games, and the old World of Darkness was horridly balanced. I saw so many clones running around it was not funny. To the point, in some cases, where only the -name- was different from character to character. It's not something I want to see happen at Novitas. I want to see things be slightly more balanced so we get a wider range of PCs running around. I'd -love- to see people take more of the Nature tree. Same goes for Restoration, Necromancy, and Compulsion. We're just now starting to see more schools used. Hell, up until the latest Version Battle Magic was highly under used. It got a revamp. Restoration and Enchantment got the same treatment. Spells where dropped, new ones added, then all of a sudden people sat up and took notice.

 

Back to my point. Balance = Fun for a lot of people. I mean, look at the "wouldn't be cool if" forum and you'll see your own post about Alchemical firebombs. You saw something you thought was lacking. A way outside of the Nature tree to do Fire damage. To you, only having Nature do elemental damage was a balance issue and dragging down the fun of the game. To me, a Nature mage, I saw it as a travesty. Alchemy can already do a ton of effects you can get -no- where else, or if you can get them elsewhere, it's hard as all hell. To me I saw your post as a way of weakening an already soft school. I mean, when the most common Elemental DR is Fire, and all of a sudden you can get it through alchemy, why the hell bother creeping up the Nature tree. I'd rather buy up alchemy and get a whole grab bag of useful, persistent things as well.

 

We've seen a ton of changes due to balance issues. Archery being 2 points a level now flat was a big one. No one was playing archers because it was expensive and generally LARP arrows are teh suxxors. So to balance things out, and to help make archers happen and be happy, they changed the point costs. The RP skills, when they where introduced, where -way- undercosted for the abilities they provided. So they upped the cost per level and tweaked the abilities. Balance. Things used to be out of whack, and they've come a long way from when I started almost 3 years ago. All the rules changes they've made have been based on balance and making the game more fun for all.

 

In a game like this, with this many players, Rules Balance is an important aspect of running the game. If things are out of whack, people will get upset, pepole who get upset are people who will stop coming, people stop coming and the game shuts down for everyone.

 

Now, this was no way an attack, and I apologize if I came across as condescending. I'm just pitching in my two cents on that topic. That being said....

 

Ideas for new Nature spells, or teaks for old ones?

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You make a good point, actually. I suppose balance helps keep those who are into min-maxing from playing the same character types.

 

However, one thing to remember when I was posting about 'alchemical fire'... is that it had nothing to do with messing with game balance. It's only purpose was to add flavor to the game in a way that made sense. It had both a historical background and a fundamental one. Logically it just makes sense that alchemists can make some kind of fire weapon.

 

If such an implementation might soften Nature magic by consequence, then perhaps Nature just needs to be tweaked a little to have its own niche.

 

You're right in that alchemy does a lot of things ... but you should alto take note that I never was asking for an all-powerful 4-point damage magic fire weapon either. Just 1-2 fire damage. Not able to downcall to magic,... just a simple tagbag. Why? Because I was thinking in terms of "what would make sense to add to what exists in Novitas" not necessarily "this area of the game could use more damage abilities".

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If such an implementation might soften Nature magic by consequence, then perhaps Nature just needs to be tweaked a little to have its own niche.

 

Bingo. Right now, it's niche -is- elementals and elemental damage types, at least at the higher levels.

 

The problem is that every new addition has to be examined for game balance. We can't just go willy nilly adding things because they would be "cool" or "logical". We already do a ton of things that are not logical. We have to look at each piece and weigh the pros and cons of it, and how it will affect the game, because if we don't, someone will take a "cool" thing and abuse it to no end. Abuse = Loss of Fun.

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Well, you still get to keep your elemental niche if alchemy gets a 1 damage point fire consumable.

 

It's when alchemy suddenly has 1 damage point ice, earth, fire, lightning, etc... is when you need to be worried :lol:

 

I don't think little things like that will throw the game into a spiral of doom, or anything.

 

But really, I think we're both making valid points, the ying and yang. You cant have one without the other. Rule mechanics and RP Flavor goes hand in hand.

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Speaking of the nitch of nature magic, it might be interesting if nature magic DID allow us to grow flowers to be used in production points, or purify water to make potion water...It'd be an interesting track for nature to take. I wouldn't recommend this for anything under a level 3 spell though so that people don't start generating a crap load of production point items. Just a thought.

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sounds pretty much just like a "Sleep" spell we had awhile back. it was ridiculous.

 

 

I miss sleep!

*sigh*

and the elven immunity :lol:

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=.

 

The game should be able to be just as fun with NO skills or spells and just roleplaying and swinging swords. :lol:

 

 

or just the roleplay?

yeah I know... I go to far :P

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Speaking of the nitch of nature magic, it might be interesting if nature magic DID allow us to grow flowers to be used in production points, or purify water to make potion water...It'd be an interesting track for nature to take. I wouldn't recommend this for anything under a level 3 spell though so that people don't start generating a crap load of production point items. Just a thought.

 

That's actually a pretty cool concept. However, I'm not sure that there are that many alchemists in game that can use flowers anyway.

 

1.) Count the number of alchemists in game.

2.) Subtract the number of them who have 20 production points.

3.) Observe all the sad pandas.

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Doesn't mean it's not useful. Anyone remember the flower girl?

 

Sometimes merchants come LOOKING for that stuff. And there's other uses besides straight alchemy. You really need to play the game a little more to understand the uses some stuff has beyond the game's written rules and abilities.

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I thought alchemy flowers add production points towards alchemy items, not to exceed normal rules for 20 production points.

 

How much simpler can it get?

 

I think the very definition of something not being useful is if no one (or hardly anyone) can use it. I'm not complaining, I'm just stating the facts. It could be potentially useful, but at the moment it isn't.

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wow took me 15 minutes to read all the post from when i went to bed yeasterday. ok heres my 2 cents on the tweaks for the nature magic. i like them. i like them alot. they make the spells pretty much worth getting aside from the mentality of "ok i am only getting these spells cause i need a lvl 1,2,3,4 spell so i can get ley lines." repel insects has got to be the most awful spell i have ever come across and i have come across alot of awful spells in my time. changing that spell to command nature would be a huge improvement. making the elemental dart spell produce 2 darts instead of 1 is the best thing i have heard in a long time. granted my charector isn't much into magic right now but that will be changing hopefully he will be ready to move to the nature tree by the time these proposed tweaks supposedly go into effect. (i really hope they do)

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Xicris is right. You have only played one game and would have little to no experience with in game flower usage. They are useful and quite sought after by the players who can use them. I went searching the woods my second game and came back with three flowers I think it was and they were sold in about five minutes. For the players who can use them they are indeed very useful. As it is that means they won't be abundant during games and only certain players will see them every game.

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I thought alchemy flowers add production points towards alchemy items, not to exceed normal rules for 20 production points.

 

How much simpler can it get?

 

I think the very definition of something not being useful is if no one (or hardly anyone) can use it. I'm not complaining, I'm just stating the facts. It could be potentially useful, but at the moment it isn't.

 

You are right. That is their purpose according to the rules. But that's all you've seem to have done so far, is think in terms of min-maxing and in-game statistical benefit. Some players want the flowers because, as gravedigger-dan says, they're pretty! :P Others want them to sell to the alchemists for profit rather then use them themselves. Plus it's always good to have stuff on hand, even if you can't use it right away.

 

I've got 2 ritual candles, a ritual jar, and 3 snake skins that I was told were ritual components. I have conducted a grand total of ZERO rituals since I started this character two years ago, and being a ritualist is his primary thing. Do I care that I have not used these items? No. Xicris likes to collect them in case he stumbles on something ritualistic in his research. In point of fact, Xicris' main character drive has had no impact on the game whatsoever so far. I don't care, i'm still having a blast. And I never thought of it in terms of "what can these skills do for me?" I just wanted him to have a thing.

 

You also don't have Alchemist-radar. There's probably a few people who have alchemy who don't TELL you about it, because their character is sorta secretive. Do not think that because you don't see it as useful, others wont' too. One man's trash...

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My issue with Ley Lines is that it's an instant teleportation. There is no way to properly roleplay this. I don't think anyone wants to see someone come running (or strolling at a leisurely pace) up waving an orange flag and gasping for breath, then put it away and say "Hey guys, I was here twenty minutes ago."

 

When bleeding out only takes ten minutes, the wait matters.

 

When the army is already heading towards town, the wait matters.

 

When the baby in your cabin is being eaten by wraiths, the wait matters.

 

I love it as an NPC escape button, I like having the spell for flavor as it adds a lot to GM plots and storyline. However, if a PC ever learned and used this spell it would completly shatter the immersion of reality in the RP for me. I don't think any skill, power, alchemical compound, or lootable pixie burps should have an effect that cannot be reasonably RPed.

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Actually it is not meant to be "instant" teleportation. It simply indicates that you dissolve into the elements and pop up at your anchor site. It takes air time to move. It takes water time to seep through the ground.

 

If you run, you get there faster. If you walk... slower. That's all.

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