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Dispel Magic- Why isnt it used more?

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Dispel magic is a great utility spell, why isn't it used more? As I asked myself this question I came up with the following points.

 

1. Its a fairly high level spell (4th) this limits is availability somewhat

 

2. In reality isn't that effective in its use.

 

Why? In theory one dispel tagbag could strip a target of all its magical defenses- magic armor? gone- shadowskin? Abomination? Ablative armor? gone

 

In practice most targets will have some sort of anti magical defences up, such as anti-magic shield (level2) enchant shield (lvl2) either of these will protect the user from the first dispel. Then we get into the heavy hitters, aura of reflection- an anti-magic shield on steroids and anti-magic aura.

 

How do you deal with this- in theory you need to "draw off" the defences with a low level spell, such as a grounding or magic swarm. In practice in most fights by the time you get off the 1st spells to get rid of the anti magical protections so the dispell can get past them the fight may well be over. If you really want to kill a target that has a heavy magical defence the most efficent way is to wack it with a sword, not to sepend 5+ points of power to reduce their defences and then blast them.

 

Do we want to fix this? Can we fix it without nerfing the defensive spells or making dispel magic way to cool?

 

Ideas please.

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Rerule Dispel magic to create 4 tagbags instead of one, is my immediate thought.

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Here is what I think. We take a page out of Aura of Reflection.

 

Two darts.

 

Still scary, can blow through AMS but still not tear down the defenses after neutralizing Aura of Reflection. Against softer targets you have 2 darts to blast away with.

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Rerule Dispel magic to create 4 tagbags instead of one, is my immediate thought.

 

FOUR!?? :)

 

Gahh! I think 2 might be better. Four is a metric crap-ton.

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It's a level 4 spell, plus, with multiple layers of magical protection, 2 doesn't really do much. Reflection + Antimagic Aura + AntiMagic shield is a possible wall of No Effects. If you want to give the spell the proper OH SHIT, go 4. No different than Severance, yo.

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The way I'm used to handling this is the double-team method. Two people go in packing spells. One has the low level that does something minor and gets rid of the anti-magic shield or reflection. The other then hits with the dispel. Takes a little more tactics, but works well. The problem is the 1 minute Anti-Magic Aura. That's a 5th level spell though, so it should stand up to a 4th.

 

2 tagbags would certainly be nice...

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Shouldn't a fourth-level spell be frightening? I think it should... Either 2 or 4, more darts seems like a good answer to me.

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more darts. I say 2.

and or lower the lvl of dispel.

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Oh no! A level 5 protection spell is better then a level 4 four utility spell!

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I recall using it once since I created my character. The only reason I needed it was to dispell "fear" on a blunted down PC. Most NPC's don't use magic protection so more tagbags might make it a little more used but doubtful. I honestly think it's just not good enough to be a 4th level spell. It's a waste of of PP.

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Just my opinion:

 

It seems there are always other options to circumvent an opponent's spell rather than cast Dispel magic that's both cheaper and more versatile:

 

Examples:

 

Someone has shadowskin: Dispel (lvl 4), Silvershine (lvl 2), Ench Weapon (lvl 3) (go for the cheaper spell)

 

Someone has aura of reflect: ...hit them with a sword.

 

Magic Lock on a door: Probably the best reason to use Dispel Magic. But I always ask myself..."how badly do i need to get in this room? meh, i can wait". Unless you're trapped inside or something... then you wish you had dispel.

 

I know there are plenty of practical uses for Dispel, but for whatever reason the alternatives win.

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I would have really liked some Dispel Magic when all of the cabins were being Magic Locked last event...

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Well there's a 5th level spell (Shadowskin) that's Completly neutralized by a 2nd level spell (Silvershine) so the level disparity argument doesn't always hold up

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Well there's a 5th level spell (Shadowskin) that's Completly neutralized by a 2nd level spell (Silvershine) so the level disparity argument doesn't always hold up

 

"Completely neutralized" is a bit of an overstatement. The rest of your allies still can't hurt the target.

 

As for Dispel, we'll take a look at it.

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Well there's a 5th level spell (Shadowskin) that's Completly neutralized by a 2nd level spell (Silvershine) so the level disparity argument doesn't always hold up

 

Silvershine only counteracts Shadowskin for a single person, and only if they can hit you.

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What if it corresponded to Battle Magic?

 

Level 2 spell: Allay Magic. Makes two dispelling tag bags.

 

Level 4 spell: Dispel Magic. Makes four dispelling tag bags.

 

I dunno though, my immediate impulse is that Dispel would still never get cast, as Allay has the same efficiency.

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Or maybe the level 2 one gives one tagbag and the level 4 one gives four...

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scaaaaary.

 

Whether it's Dispel, Severance, or Maelstrom, most scary level 4 spells make Atticus turn and run the other direction (Or at least behind Cover Desoto...)

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Wow, I guess I "hit" on this topic- what about a lvl 2 "minor" dispel it only gets rid 1 effect, lowest to highest or it dispels everything lv 3 and under? The difficult part of adding a spell is what to get rid of, enchant shield and silvershine are good spells on their own. Going to 2 tagbag route for dispel may be the better way.

 

Its a difficult balancing act- I dont want to make useless the effort that someone would put in by having all of these magical defenses up, but there needs to be some sort of paper for that rock and I just dont think it balances right now.

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Dispel woulnd't get rid of Silvershine at any level. SIlvershine is on an item, not on a person. Recall that we used to have a "Disenchant" spell that removed item buffs, but it got scrapped when Rose found out that she couldn't use it to steal blue bags.

 

Is that something worth doing? Adding that ability onto Dispel tagbags? The "removes all your buffs and all your temporary effects on items you're carrying" ability?

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Maybe if you switched around Dispel Magic and Wraithbane.

 

Make Dispel Magic a 5th level spell that dispels everything and anything on a person, and makes it considered a non-offensive spell for the purposes of spells like Aura of Reflection and Anti-Magic Shield.

 

Then make Wraithbane a level 4 spell, and either drop the +1 damage, or maybe make the duration for one hour instead of one game day.

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Dispel woulnd't get rid of Silvershine at any level. SIlvershine is on an item, not on a person. Recall that we used to have a "Disenchant" spell that removed item buffs, but it got scrapped when Rose found out that she couldn't use it to steal blue bags.

 

Is that something worth doing? Adding that ability onto Dispel tagbags? The "removes all your buffs and all your temporary effects on items you're carrying" ability?

 

We made the decision to change that back in July. In the current 3.5 book this is the case.

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Thinking it over for a moment, I think Dispel is cool the way it is.

 

If anyone can cast it at level 2, then it'll be like Dissipate, everyone will have it.

Magic Locks would then be pretty much be rendered useless if people can just spend 3 points to buy up to Dispel and walk through magic lock like it was nothing.

 

Maybe you could have a "Suppress Magic" spell, at level 2. That (for 1 minute) removes a spell effect, after which the spell effect resumes once Suppress Magic expires? Even then, that allows people to surpass magic lock too easily, I think. Or perhaps I'm giving magic lock too much credit, lol.

 

That's just my own 2 cents though.

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I think dren is right in saying if it was lvl 2 everyone would have it.

 

so the answer in my opinion is making it more darts.

 

or doing what moon father said and raising the lvl of it and making it even more powerful, i.e. 4 darts.

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