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Battle Magic

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I have a thought that we should adjust Battle Magic to give one dart per level. Magic Dart moves to first level, Maelstrom stays at level five, but now grants five darts, and there's a new spell somewhere in there that grants the missing link.

 

My main reason for this is that each dart spell currently increases on the efficiency of the last one. For example:

 

Magic Dart = 1 dart for 2 power = .5 dart / power spent

 

Magic Swarm = 2 darts for 3 power = .67 dart / power spent

 

G. Magic Swarm = 3 darts for 4 power = .75 darts / power spent

 

Maelstrom = 4 darts for 5 power = .8 darts / power spent

 

As you get the next spell up the chain, there is no reason to ever cast the previous one. It becomes, effectively, a wasted prerequisite spell. No other school works like this.

 

If the spells were all of the same efficiency, then the mage could pick how much firepower he needed for each encounter without worrying about wasting power with a less efficient spell. There would still be an advantage to casting Maelstrom in that you wouldn't have to keep casting in combat and wouldn't risk spell interruption while repeatedly casting the 1-dart or 2-dart spells.

 

It would also allow mages to move around in the school without missing out on something. For example, a mage's spell selection might go like this:

 

1st level: Magic Strike

2nd level: 2 darts

3rd level: Spellstore (or some new, non-sucky spell to replace Spellstore)

4th level: 4 darts

5th level: Battle Immunity

 

This is a much more versatile and useful spell selection.

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It might work, but I'm not sure that magic strike would get used much anymore.

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It might work, but I'm not sure that magic strike would get used much anymore.

 

I don't know a 4 magic that sits on my weapon all day or until I use it can always be useful. Plus you could cast it a few times on all of your buddies before a fight.

 

So would this new 1 dart spell be replacing Mana Burn?

 

-Brian

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So would this new 1 dart spell be replacing Mana Burn?

Maybe Mana Burn goes away. Maybe Mana Burn goes a tad higher and leeches Power instead of simply knocking it off.

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I don't like it.

 

Off the top of my head, both panacea and revive usurp lower-level spells in usefulness.

 

I can see your point in that it would let battle mages a little variety in their spells, but couldn't we do that by simply eliminating the 1-dart and 3-dart versions? Five 4-point darts for 5 power seems a bit over the top. (About 25% over the top)

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I just did some math and if we do things your way, Dave, we have a big issue. In order to shoot a bow for 4 it takes 14 skill points. With the same amount of points I could have 13 shots of 4 magic damage tag bags in the proposed version. So I think that the dart spells are fine the way they are. Battle Magic already gets a dart spell 1 level earlier than Enchantment and Nature.

 

I think it's way too efficient at the 1 dart for 1 power ratio. You'll be making the new Magic Dart spell too good not to have. A 1st level build could be Magic Armor, Magic Dart, and 4 power. That gives me one casting of Magic Armor and 3 Magic Darts for the game day. That's some pretty mad beatings that 1st level character could lay out.

 

-Brian

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Except that you can shoot a bow for 6 hours straight while the mage is out of Power. Comparing the combat power of combat skills against magic is a bad idea. Magic should be massively powerful for short bursts, while combat skills should provide regular, dependable damage output all day.

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Even if it is a bad idea to compare them it seems compelling to me. Even if that arguement is out I still feel that the one for one ratio is just too efficient. There's no reason at that point not to take the level one dart spell to have at least one shot a day for 4 magic.

 

-Brian

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Is there a problem with universally useful spells? Everyone in the game knows Magic Armor. Everyone who wears armor knows Mend Armor. Everyone with Body knows Heal Body.

 

This is a classless system. Anyone can know anything (and everything) and often does.

 

Why shouldn't Battle Magic have the best power-to-damage ratio? That seems logical to me, when the whole point of the school is dealing Magic Damage.

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It already does have the best damage to power ratio. You're suggestion makes it even better to an uber level even.

 

-Brian

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I don't see that it would make much practical difference. At the pinnacle of the Battle Magic tree, you get to theoretically deal an extra 16 points of damage. That's assuming no misses with tag bags, everyone takes all their hits, and no spell interruptions.

 

Put differently, theoretical max damage FOR THE ENTIRE SHIFT of a max level Battle Mage chucking spackets is currently 64 damage. If we drop the price a little, it becomes 80. That's not anything huge, and it's all he's got for six hours. It's a 25% increase, that's all.

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I would like to see it playtested with a 2 for 2 and a 4 for 4 pair of spells.

 

This would require a new level 3 and a new level 5 battle magic spell. Potentially making the whole tree much cooler.

 

It's possible that my problem with the 1 bag for 1 point thing is that I envision everyone and their mother dropping a skill point on magic dart. Why wouldn't suddenly every spellcaster carry a tagbag, for the occasions it merits?

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It's possible that my problem with the 1 bag for 1 point thing is that I envision everyone and their mother dropping a skill point on magic dart. Why wouldn't suddenly every spellcaster carry a tagbag, for the occasions it merits?

 

It would be pretty damned efficient. Looking at it from an Aegis mage's perspective, I'd never be able to keep up. I'd have to pay double what you are to keep up with anti magic shields, and magic armor only soaks up have a magic dart for the same price. Especially at the lower end of the scale, this changes the balance between the two schools pretty significantly.

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It's possible that my problem with the 1 bag for 1 point thing is that I envision everyone and their mother dropping a skill point on magic dart. Why wouldn't suddenly every spellcaster carry a tagbag, for the occasions it merits?

I don't see that as a problem. Why shouldn't everyone have access to an efficient magic damage dealer? Everyone who has Magic Armor isn't an Aegis mage, and everyone with Mend Armor isn't an Elementalist. Having a lot of people with a level 1 Battle Magic spell wouldn't mean the town was full of Battle mages.

 

Bob, if the defense keeps up with the offense it's a boring game...

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Bob, if the defense keeps up with the offense it's a boring game...

 

Maybe, but if it can't keep up at all it become not worth bothering with. Then you have a game full of glass cannons.

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This is hardly that. This is a minor tweak to keep Battle Magic at the top of the offensive power curve, let them play longer, avoid useless overlapping of half the school, and make it a bit more efficient.

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Maybe, but if it can't keep up at all it become not worth bothering with. Then you have a game full of glass cannons.

You mean like the people with two Body and no armor who hit for 4?

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Since it only takes what, ten hits MAX to take down anybody, ever, I'd say we're a town full of glass cannons to begin with.

 

I just don't want to see

level 1: one bag

level 2: two bag

level 3: three bag

level 4: four bag

level 5: five bag

 

That looks like a boring, boring school of magic to me. It's already pretty boring, but that's because the efficiency changes from spell to spell. Why would anyone ever learn the level five one after they know the level one or two spells? We don't have any kind of recent casting limit.

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Because there's no danger of interruption and no need to recast to get four or five darts.

 

No one is going to take all of them, so maybe the best course of action is to go 1-3-5 with both darts and levels. That's a nice power scale.

 

EDIT: I can clearly see how if there's no difference but the number of darts why no one will take all five. Most people will probably take 2-4 or 1-3-5, so let's pick one. I personally like 1-3-5. 1 is accessible to everyone, 3 shows some dedication, and 5 is the cannon.

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I like 2-4, it leaves darts just out of reach of the "dip" mage, and keeps the current damage-per-spell max, but at a cheaper cost.

 

Magic strike is a solid spell for one power, I wouldn't want to see it overshadowed by a tagbag.

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I agree if we're going to do this then 2 and 4 seem best. So we need what a new level 3 and 5 spell for Battle Magic to replace Maelstrom and Magic Swarm?

 

hmm... the new level 5 could be a mass Strength spell of some kind.

 

as for level 3... I've got nothing there for now.

 

-Brian

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I would still prefer 1-3-5. I like the 1-for-1 spell, and I'd like to see five darts at 5.

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Do any other players have Maelstrom? I'd like to know how they feel.

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I would still prefer 1-3-5. I like the 1-for-1 spell, and I'd like to see five darts at 5.

 

I still think the 1 for 1 spell is too good.

 

-Brian

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I still think the 1 for 1 spell is too good.

 

-Brian

I have more of an issue with 5 darts from one spell, than the 1 dart/power aspect. Something makes me prefer to see PCs use their abilities more often, than have them suddenly get 25% more awesome

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