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Kinger

[Nature Magic] Disipate

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I would really like to see a reworking of disipate.

 

As its writen it makes no sense for witnesses who know how the spell works, not to realize that people who have used it are not standing in the same position, when they cast the spell or drank the potion.

 

Further more, it is being abused in ways i don't believe fit its true intentions.

 

Abuse #1 - Blink fighting. Using disipate to pop in and out of combat is, or leave combat until your enemy is behind you so you can stab them in the back is pretty lame.

 

Abuse #2 - The untouchable wall. Durring large combats a PC will aproach a group of mobs and then disipate and stand in the way of battle. This forces the mobs to fight around him, and gives his allys something to hide behind. Personally I find this use even worse than the blink fighting.

 

After talking to a few others I think Disipate should make the use move 10 feet chosen direction, and remain inactive for a length of time up to 10 mins but no fewer than 3-5.

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I have no problem with your Abuse #1. Working as intended.

 

Your Abuse #2 sounds particularly crappy, if it's being done on purpose and not to set up a round of "blink fighting".

 

I know that a few people have an issue with the way Dissipate works. My initial impulse is to say "deal with it", but I'm open to other suggestions.

 

Also, your post is borderline illiterate. I expect better from someone who is shaping young minds...

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I have no problem with your Abuse #1. Working as intended.

 

Is the intent a safety button to get out of harm's way, or is it "Ignore me so I can stab you in the back"? I know blink fighting has become common practice because of the way the spell is currently written, but was that really how you meant it to be used? And even if so, is that really what we want it to be used for? Personally, I prefer that it be used as a "fair escape" power but not very effective as an offensive weapon.

 

For that purpose, requiring a minimum time limit to stay dissipated and requiring them to get out of the battle's way would help fix it.

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maybe im shaping them to be illiterate

Clearly you're not shaping them to capitalize or punctuate...

 

At 2 Power a whack, I don't see a problem with the "blink fighting". It's a valid tactic and a good strategic use of the spell. The power cost (and need for an interruptible incant) limits it from being used constantly.

 

Dissipate, in it's current form, evolved from a spell called "Tree Meld" which required you to touch a tree to melt into it. That was too limiting, requiring trees, and thus became the spell "Earth Meld". In our zeal to differentiate ourselves as much as possible from the (at the time) current Mid-land ruleset, we changed the name to Dissipate, while leaving the functionality the same.

 

All of those spells were designed as an escape route, yes, but as the NSGG adapted the spell to it's current uses, I didn't see a problem - and still don't.

 

I think we should wait for more input from other players on this before considering any changes. This:

After talking to a few others

holds zero weight with me.

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What is so bad about "blink fighting?" Is it any worse than someone continually casting heal body/mend armor /magic armor during a fight to stay up? Just because someone dissipated during a fight dose not mean that you forget they ever existed- you just don't know where they are- take precautions. If you need to loot someone (even as an NPC) have someone post a guard and/or watch your back. As far as being in the middle of a fight if anyone is using a dissipated person as a human shield they are cheating, conversely if a dissipated person is obliviously in the way I don't see any reason for them not to move 5 feet out of the way- just don't play it as a I think I will move 20 feet over here to make it easer to run away.

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I'm fine with adding a clarification to the spell description to instruct people to move the hell out of the way of stuff going on, maybe marking their position with a tag bag (or glow stick at night) on the ground so they can return there.

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I don't think any change needs to be made. If I dissipate and I find that I'm in the way I usually just mark the spot with something and get to the side near the trees. As it is I usually move over towards the trees on the side and dissipate there. This blink fighting you talk of it seems neat to me (although I'm too much of a coward to even attempt it) heh. The shielding though I feel is cheating.

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I have a huge problem with anyone trying to hide behind invisible human shields, and I'd like to know who's doing it.

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Invisible wall is definitely an abuse of the game mechanics, but I've never seen it done personally.

 

 

However blink fighting I see no problem with at all, it's been used for some time and it shouldn't change just because a couple people don't like being vulnerable.

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Taken from the rulle book on Disipate.

 

Other characters are required to ignore the dissipated character even if they see the caster disappear into thin air.Witnesses dismiss this magic effect as losing sight of the caster in the woods or some other rationale.

 

This spell does not allow the caster to move to a new location.

 

 

Ok. Let me try this again. My post early is really bad..i blame an hours worth of sleep. But Anyways.

 

According to the rules when someone disapates they meld with the elements and witnesses believe they have run off..or escaped. Now If I am a nature mage/druid, or just know the spell disipate because its a handy spell to have, then I would know when it is used the caster will reappear in the same stop the disappeared in because its happend to me each time i've used the spell. Therefor I should be able to camp the spot where i know that person is going to reappear.

 

So if i hear someone cast disapate, and see then run off (due to magical effects) I would know they will eventually reappear in the spot where they cast the spell.

 

On that note I think there should be a limited range of movement for the disapator (say up to 10 feet) which will keep the element of suprise and take away the issue of camping.

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On that note I think there should be a limited range of movement for the disapator (say up to 10 feet) which will keep the element of suprise and take away the issue of camping.

 

Without a minimum time to stay dissipated, this would turn the spell into "I teleport behind you and stab you."

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Dissapate to me is supposed to be the get the fuck out of dodge spell not ninja vanish. I've always had an issue with blink fighting since I've started coming to Novitas and voiced it as well. Blink Fighting seems to be to be doing contrary to what the spell was intended which was to disengage and make it easier to run away not make it easier for to stab someone in the back.

 

The invisible wall effect is something I personally witnessed at the NC fortress fight last game. A PC moved up and engaged 2-3 NCs and then Dissapated just before attacking. The NCs were then forced to fight around this PC while his friends hid behind him and used him as cover. Then the Dissapated PC came out and finished off the NCs. I've seen something similar done at least one other time though it was last year and I unfortunatly don't recall the exact circumstances anymore.

 

I think requireing people to at least move off of the immediate field of battle and staying Dissapated for at least 1 minute should suffice. This would mean that the invisible wall effect would cease and Blink Fighting is still possible though somewhat more difficult. Otherwise I feel the spell is simply too powerful and should be moved up to level 3.

 

-Brian

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Without a minimum time to stay dissipated, this would turn the spell into "I teleport behind you and stab you."

 

your right..I would agree that if movement were to be allowed then a minimum time limit should be as well.

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What we absolutely want to avoid is any type of "invisibility" spell. This leads to ALL KINDS of bullshit metagaming where people will do things like "I'm following your footprints" as they trail behind the caster. This was the abuse that led to the current effect of "you just lose track of the caster and your mind moves on to other things".

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My only contribution is that I don't want to see Dissipate lose it's utility to PCs who aren't the fighting type. If we ever want to get to the point where we have IC shopkeepers, or normal farmers, (etc) dissipate is the spell that will keep them alive and coming to game.

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My only contribution is that I don't want to see Dissipate lose it's utility to PCs who aren't the fighting type. If we ever want to get to the point where we have IC shopkeepers, or normal farmers, (etc) dissipate is the spell that will keep them alive and coming to game.

 

I don't think any of the proposed changes will do that.

 

-Brian

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So there's two complaints, other than the invisible wall complaint which all agree is cheating.

 

Complaint the first is that some people feel the "everyone loses track of the caster" mechanic is too far-fetched.

 

Complaint the second is that some people don't like the combat applications of Dissipate and feel that it should be solely a getaway spell.

 

Right now I'm not seeing enough people who are bothered by the current implementation to change it. I will add in a line about marking your spot and getting out of the way during encounters though, which will solve the invisible wall cheat.

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Someone told me that when you dissipate you can't see, thus negating blink fighting, I guess I was missinformed though. I like the idea of blink fighting, but if that is legal then it should also be legal for people to recognize when the spell is being used so they don't get blind sided. I like the idea of alowing the caster to move ten feet, but others who can use the spell can mark the spot where he dissipated.

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OK, I think that we could treat this as we treat compulsion magic. The spell says that when it is cast, you lose sight of the person and assume they just got away from you. You "forget" that you heard the incant and continue to fight the rest or whatever.

 

So what is we say that if you are immune to compulsion, you realize that Dissipate happened. It will not help you see them or hit them while dissipated, but you will know that they did and can act accordingly. This removes the blink fighting tactic agains undead or constructs or anyone with mind blank. Doesn't mean that I could not still backstab you if in the fighting you get so focused on my friend that you back towards me anyway, but allows for you to choose to stay away from where you last saw me.

 

I always felt that the "Where'd they go?" piece felt a bit like a mind-effecting thing anyway.

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Felix, I like that. It makes sense, and I think that the 'not making sense' part was the problem for a lot of people.

 

The folks who don't like blink-fighting in general will just have to cope, though. :P

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that means it should change schools as well

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No. The physical effect of the dissipation remains an Elemental effect. If it was to move entirely to COmpulsion it would need to be some sort of Invisibility spell, and Mind Blank would foil it.

 

If however, we do end up considering it partially a Compulsion effect, as Felix suggested, then in my opinion it should move to Compulsion. This has the potential to be very, very messy, especially for people who are high level Elementalists and have Dissipate as their only level 2 spell.

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IMO if you have the magic to waste blink fight all day long. Its not abuse its using your spell to the max. Its smart and strategic, I personally love it.

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I don't think we should have it move schools. I just find it irksome to have people "dissolved in to elements" while standing in a choke point on a battlefield. Also being told that as a PC or NPC I need to move away from an area and not act naturally is doubly so.

 

Adding the addendum that a Dissipated character can drop a flag and move a short distance away would help us separate the chumpos and cheaters from those using the spell in good faith. As to the "you must go away" most people don't sit around in one spot for 10 minutes unless they have some reason to do so.

 

As a suggestion I would submit that we could make Dissipate have a set duration of 10 minutes, no popping back in on a whim, might be a good option. That makes it a viable escape spell, while eliminating at least part of its complained-about uses. If you use it to get away, you are getting away. Period.

 

Anyone else?

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