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Tony McHambone

Elementals...

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This question came up at Feb Feast and we all sort of just rolled with it...

 

Are you able to Reflect (Aura of Reflection) or No Effect (Anti-Magic-Shield) a nature damage tag bag from elementals?? It's not necessarily a magical attack, yet it is a tag bag.

 

I don't really care one way or the other, I'm just curious as both would make logical sense.

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I want to say Yes.

 

History has shown that a dozen people from the peanut gallery will tell me I'm wrong.

 

It seems to me that Anti-magic Shield should work VS magic -and- nature the way spirit shield works VS poison -and- acid.

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Would you be able to reflect the calls then? or simply just call no-effect if Anti-Magic-Shield is up?

 

I understand what you're saying, however; would it need to be deemed a spell to be reflected?

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No, it doesn't need to be a spell to be reflected.

 

For instance, if you're fully buffed and a Bagman starts hitting you:

 

1. Reflect

2. Reflect

3. No Effect (Anti-magic Shield)

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I want to say Yes.

 

History has shown that a dozen people from the peanut gallery will tell me I'm wrong.

 

It seems to me that Anti-magic Shield should work VS magic -and- nature the way spirit shield works VS poison -and- acid.

 

Peanut gallery approved. :P

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Elemental tag bags have been reflected in the past to good effect as I recall.

 

-Brian

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What about it's melee attacks then? Clearly those can not be reflected. Right?

 

But even though one is a spell effect and the other is a damage type, they both have the same call.

 

And if my personal 2 cents is worth anything (and it probably is not) I would rather see Elemental Darts redefined as non-magical, much like creeping rot, poison, and acid.

 

Something strikes me as odd about having an elemental be able to kill itself off of a reflect with its own Elemental Dart, but that's starting to sound like an argument for going back toward different elemental damage types - so forget i said anything. >~<

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What about it's melee attacks then? Clearly those can not be reflected. Right?

 

But even though one is a spell effect and the other is a damage type, they both have the same call.

 

As far as I know, when a bagman swings at you it is, in essence, using a Fear spell/Mageblade like effect to hit you with that Fear, thus it can be stopped with the full range of magical defenses. Damage effects delivered in such a way that can be Reflected have "Strike" added to the end if it's melee.

 

So an Elemental hitting you with a sword for Nature damage, because it lacks the Strike call, can't be reflected. It is what it is, much like hitting someone with a silver weapon.

 

I see where you are coming from, and it seems silly myself to some degree, but it's there to keep things flowing and simple.

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So an Elemental hitting you with a sword for Nature damage, because it lacks the Strike call, can't be reflected. It is what it is, much like hitting someone with a silver weapon.

 

I'm confused... I thought Elementals were like Wraiths. They don't have "weapons", it's supposed to represent them reaching out and striking you. I could be wrong, I just always assumed that I guess...

 

Edit: Random off-topic question... Do creatures who can't speak, have to incant for casting spells?

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Yes, I would assume the elemental is just touching you, but since we can't have NPCs punching people for nature damage, sometimes their claws really look like foam swords, to the untrained eye.

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So... If they are striking you for nature damage, how can that be reflected?

 

Without a weapon, there is no channeled spell. Without a channeled spell, there is no reflect.

 

My mind is so confued.

 

Edit: A Bagman is hitting you with Fear, a spell. That's a little different than just being struck for a damage type.

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So... If they are striking you for nature damage, how can that be reflected?

 

Without a weapon, there is no channeled spell. Without a channeled spell, there is no reflect.

 

My mind is so confued.

 

Edit: A Bagman is hitting you with Fear, a spell. That's a little different than just being struck for a damage type.

 

We were more talking about the elemental's tag bag attacks. I just decided to needlessly confound the issue. Sorry.

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If they said "4 nature strike" it could be reflected. "4 nature" in melee would not.

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If they said "4 nature strike" it could be reflected. "4 nature" in melee would not.

 

My memory lapsed on that rule. I was just playing devil's advocate anyhow, not trying to raise a real point.

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This came up again this weekend.

 

So Nature tag bags can be negated by Anti-Magic effects, but not melée attacks?

 

Wouldn't it be easier to say all Nature is strictly Nature and therefore cannot be stopped by magical defenses except Nature Immunity/Primal Form?

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Nature tag bags are off the spell Elemental dart so aegis buffs or immunities will apply. The upside to the tag bags is they ignore shields unless the shield is enchanted just like all other spells.

 

Immunities refer to the damage call regardless of what causes the source (Primal form will block all nature calls, Battle Mastery will block all magic calls)

 

Elementals have an ability to throw the tag bag with no incant if I remember correctly so they also work like Elemental darts.

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So you can ignore a Poison Dart from Creeping Rot with Anti-Magic Shield or Reflect it with Aura of Reflection?

 

This seems over complicated.

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Ugh knew I forgot a part, No in creeping rots spell description (And the new battle one) it specific mentions it ignores, but can also be blocked by a shield. They mimic the alchemy tag bag rules.

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That makes sense.

 

Elemental Dart not being the same as Ruin / Creeping Rot doesn't make sense because Nature =\= Magic.

 

Edit: I'm dumb. Elemental Dart reads that it is magic and effects people as magic.

 

So Nature Weapons are not magic. They're just Nature. Nothing magical about them.

 

Elemental Dart is Nature or Primal damage that is also magical.

 

Got it.

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Unless you drop a Nature tag bag on his chest from Elemental Dart. That counts, right?

 

The undead probably wouldn't know and stand up.

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Anti Magic Shield stops tag bags not melee attacks.

 

The only exception to that is if your using a mageblade to channel a tag bag. In your example it would be channeling a nature dart. The call would be '4 nature strike'. Then the player knows to treat it as a tagbag, which anti magic shield can counter.

 

Poisons/acid are alchemical not magical. You need spirit shield/poison immunity to counter.

 

And yes. you can KB with tag bags. but undead need 'magic' tag bags.

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Zach, you have missed the point. Elemental Dart tag bags are magical too. So they meet the requirement to kill them in theory with the call of just Nature.

 

Zach, you have missed the point. Elemental Dart tag bags are magical too. So they meet the requirement to kill them in theory with the call of just Nature.

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The description of Elemental darts says they count as 'magic' and 'nature'. I didn't think nature counted as both. Not enough time to look it up. Gotta go to work.

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