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Dren Ollevres

Repost of Dren's Review of Knight Realms

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Here's a repost of what I posted in the Staff forums a few years back. I'm posting it now because 1.) it's amusing, 2.) I don't care if people from KR read it. 3.) it was written a while back, so maybe the game has improved. Enjoy:

 

 

"Kevin and Katie, who I met up with at KR about an hour after I arrived, can attest to this all being true.

 

Let me begin by saying... If you could cry a drop of water into the Guatemala Sinkhole for every time you saw something that would merit a junkpunch in this game, you'd effectively separate North and South America with a sea of tears. If you haven't guessed, to say I found the experience "a bit overwhelming" is an understatement. For the record: there are more skills in this game than there are punctuation marks in our rulebook.

 

I drove several hours to the middle of Pennsylvania to some random camp called Camp Daddy Allen (sounds creepy). First off, there's no parking. None. There are over 150 people at a game and people pull off to the side of a 1-lane road into the woods and try not to double-park too many people. I have a carload of stuff and my first mission is to make an introduction, find a place to sleep, and perhaps get a tour of the area while it's still light out.

 

Here's my experience, in FAIL/WIN format, with Knight Realms:

 

FAIL: No one is designated to assist new players to game. You either show up with friends who've already played, or you're shit-out-of-luck. The first person I meet looks at me with an irritated glance and she claims all the cabins are 'reserved' (unofficially) and you'll have to ask for the proper Lord's approval. I explain that I'd just like to NPC and the advice I was given was "my cabin's full, you can try walking up and down the road and find someone with a spot open". Eventually, I managed to find a cabin in the middle of the woods where a certain person couldn't make it to game. I was told newbies get to sleep in the corner so I carried my stuff about a quarter mile from my car and dumped it into the cabin.

 

Note: When I was put into the cabin of 3 other people, all I could say is that it was a room full of level 100 assholes. Some guy was supposed to be this awesome badass fighter... and he shows up at game with a poolnoodle that is suppose to be a 'double ended polearm'. One side is a duct-tape box, the other is a duct-tape glaive. He's wearing a piece of black fabric wrapped in a red scarf and had carpenter boots on. This is supposed to be their cream of the crop. It was borderline embarrassing to be in the same cabin as these people.

 

FAIL: The cabins are numerous (about 40 or so) each containing 4 pieces of plywood on 2x4s which constitutes a bed. No mattress or springs.

 

WIN: Encampment looks beautiful. There's a ton of people at game and the porches of cabins are lit with flickering candles, colorful banners, and a few weapon-racks where various smiths hold shop.

 

WIN: In the first 15 minutes I'm there, I see at least 20+ attractive females.

 

WIN: Logistics was the first building I stumbled into and I noticed they had a nice shelving system and array of masks arranged in alphabetical order. Monster NPCs are handed "Monster Cards" with all of the stats, abilities, and defenses of the creature you're going out as. (I'm seriously tempted to print something like this up for our game as it can greatly help new players.)

 

FAIL: There aren't really any RP roles for NPCs. We asked and were given a strange look.

 

FAIL: Only one small rack of clothes and 2 totes of various "dungeon props". Out of 7 or 8 shifts, you're only required to NPC one of them. So they only deal with about 20 NPCs at a time, so it's understandable.

 

WIN: Character creation is easy. You pick a class out of 25 or so, of which you can later opt to multi-class, and once you finish your initial build you're expected to "learn" or "train" new skills from people in-game (actually RP it out during a shift). You start with 10 build points. You get about 4 BP per event, possibly 4 more if you NPC enough. A skill which grants you +1 damage could cost anywhere from 6 to 10 BP. For my character, I got a fun ability called Waylay (since I made an 'assassin'...of course) and could read scrolls. They started me off at 4 Body points and since I chose single-handed edge weapons, I could hit for 2 damage! This leads me to the worst part about the entire game:

 

EPIC FAIL: Combat is not even remotely balanced. Monsters can have 400+ hit points. Literally. Let me reiterate this for those of you that don't want to do math... I would have to hit an average creature at game over 200 times to have a glimmer of hope of killing it. Even the weakest skeletons had 40-60 BP and various defenses. Oh wait, I see another epic fail approaching…

 

EPIC FAIL: Defenses are cheese. If you get hit and you don't feel like taking damage, there are any number of things you can call to get out of jail free. Here's a subset of the "your attack fails" defenses people can have active at any given time: Dodge, Parry, Resist, Natural Resist, Stoneskin, Reflect, Elemental Block, Shield Block, Hero of the Last Stand, and various spells I cant recall the names to. You might think "hey, that's not too bad". Except you can take them all multiple times. There's a good chance you'll see someone with 4-8 dodges and parries which means they DON'T NEED TO MOVE AT ALL while fighting you.

 

Derailing from the WIN/FAIL structure for a minute, I need to elaborate on how horrible this is. Let's say you have 8 NPCs in a shield wall (that's high for an NPC group). A PC could literally walk at a casual pace towards the NPCs as they rain down damage calls such as "7 Crit!", "21 Body Fire", "13 Mithril Ice Backstab!", etc. They could stop, trim their nails, sip a few drinks out of their canteen, say "excuse me a moment" as they push the shields aside and walk behind everyone... then turn around and start attacking... and they'd still be alive. Did I mention they were a Mage and aren't even considered a frontline fighter in this game? The one thing going for them is it's NOT a tap-blocking system (thankfully) or I fear combat would never resolve.

 

Kevin and I, as Greater Skeletons swinging for 6 damage each with 200 body advanced towards a priest who happened to trip over a rock and was on the ground. We spent a good while beating on him until our arms got tired, then he casually got up (not calling defenses, just taking the straight damage) and walked a few feet away, then started fighting again. He actually had his back to us a few times because, frankly, we didn't do "that much damage" per hit. Anyway, there's some light at the end of this tunnel…

EPIC WIN: We kicked ass. I mean, hardcore… kicked… ass. Even Katie, with a shield, managed to take on 3 people at once as a goblin. Jumping back to avoid a strike to the legs made their eyes widen with surprise. Every encounter we went on, we hit them for at least 15-20 times for every 1 hit they got on us. Not exaggerating. Granted, that one hit managed to deal 200-400 damage of unblockable fire or 'divine' damage compared to our critical hits in the double digits, but we held our own quite well.

 

WIN: Shifts last until 6AM and yes they can kill you in your sleep.

 

FAIL: Not like it would ever happen since you'd need to hit them over a hundred times. In fact, they could probably wake up, read the morning paper, then lazily lift their sword and beat you up.

 

FAIL: Auto-win abilities. Are you faster than the other player and think you're going to get away? Think again. They'll probably point a finger at you and call "Perfect Aim: Incinerate!" for 400 damage, auto-hit. Or even better, they'll call 'Leap' or 'Flee' or 'Jump' which means game hold as they walk ~20 steps towards you, then call 'game on' and stun your ass. There are also abilities called Slay which means you die... unless you expend any one of your 15 defenses.

 

FAIL: Combat flow is slower than Steven Hawking reciting the entire Encyclopedia Britannica. In a given combat, game holds can be called by anyone for any reason. Sometimes it's because someone stubbed their toe, sometimes it's because an NPC wandered into a thorn bush, and sometimes it's because they have to stop and think what defenses to call to counter the 5 attacks they just took. When you have 1000 hit points as a level 90 warrior, or whatever, it's difficult to keep track of 6 people hitting you for "26 backstab crit", "8 Magic", "13 Mithril", "20 Body Fire", "2 damage", and "40 Avail Crit Body" at the same time.

WIN: The inn was huge. Lots of games and gambling going on. Lots of women in tights and breasts which were pushed out farther than their swords could reach.

 

WIN: The feast Saturday night had some amazing dessert and marinated pork. Everyone pitched in to help serve. Yay teamwork.

 

WIN/FAIL: People metagame. Why is this a win? Because I came into game dressed as a swashbuckler and no one ever suspected me waylaying them in the back of the head or picking their pockets or palming the coin they set down on the corner of the table. People assume you're whatever class you dress like most. This game is fun as hell for rogue-like characters. I ate like a king and made back all my money by the end of the game (Which we only stayed for half the event).

 

WIN/FAIL: A pick-pocketing game mechanic involves taking a black clothespin and clipping it to a target's pouch, within 10 inches, and after 10 seconds you acquire the contents of that pouch. At first I considered this very lame since it diverts from any real-world skill. However, it was very entertaining at NPC camp to literally "pick pocket" everyone in the room, even the camera guy, without them noticing. It meant nothing as it was OOC, but it was a good time. Unfortunately, the only way you can do that in game is with a GM present. So the odds of this happening when an opportunity presents itself is slim to none.

 

WIN: Minted coins look like old-fashioned medieval metalwork. It was a pressed piece of metal of various chunks of silver or gold-looking metals. The economy is well done in this game and adds greatly to the atmospehere.

 

WIN/FAIL: Garb. Some people had custom Iron Liege hammers and tower shields with EL-Wire, hand-carved wooden shields, etc. Other people showed up in cargo shorts and Led Zepplin t-shirts carrying a pool-noodle with a wad of duct tape at one end. The same spectrum could be said for the level of roleplaying at the game as well. Whippy weapons, knitted chainmail, and plastic plate armor = mega fail.

 

Most Ridiculous Moment of the Event: This award goes to a "duel" between two high level players. They were swinging for 21 body fire and 13 mithril damage, each. They unleashed a flurry of attacks for what seemed like 30 minutes, not blocking anything. One of the guys literally had his sword fall out of his hand 3 times. Then they took a breather because they were so tired. Then started hitting eachother again for another 10 minutes. This is when they started calling out their "parry" and "dodge" nonsense. I was bored. It ended when one of them called game hold and counted damage on their fingers, then fell down.

 

 

FINAL THOUGHTS:

Players in this game don't tell war-stories about how they took down an awesome foe single-handedly and saved the day... no, they talk instead about how much damage they can do and how many buildpoints they'll have next game. It's just a power-creep where the only way to be awesome is to have more points.

 

In conclusion, we left after the Feast (around 8pm) on saturday and headed to Zach's house in Binghamton for a night of booze and hot tub entertainment. I would strongly suggest KoN players give this a try in July to fully appreciate what we fight to protect KoN from turning into. "

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They have a new camp they play at now, which is actually owned by the game's director. They let other LARPs play there too, such as Dystopia Rising. It makes a great Dystopia Rising site...though I don't know how I'd feel about seeing things like run-down basketball courts and modern looking buildings in a fantasy game. Then again, our LARP has a parking lot with cars right in the middle of it, so I guess that stuff is easy to get used to.

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I wonder how many people we could hold at the Novitas site.

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Who cares? Real question is how do we get this? "The inn was huge. Lots of games and gambling going on. Lots of women in tights and breasts which were pushed out farther than their swords could reach."

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KR, and by extension DR, have a prime location for roleplayers and their lightest touch system just tends to attract more ladies. Our location is a little far out to attract the crowds.

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Then again, our LARP has a parking lot with cars right in the middle of it, so I guess that stuff is easy to get used to.

 

This was less of an issue when we all stayed in town. Our growth has caused some of those issues to become more prominent over the years. Hopefully with the Inn moving back in town, that will improve a bit.

 

KR, and by extension DR, have a prime location for roleplayers and their lightest touch system just tends to attract more ladies. Our location is a little far out to attract the crowds.

 

Definitely true. We have an awesome group for being in sticksville. I can only imagine if we were within an hour or two of a major east coast city. Cripes, look at the numbers something like Mythical Journeys or Darkon gets...

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Solution:

1: Find one of them filmmakers who've been talking to us.

2: Make an epic docudrama where at least one of us looks like a total tool who can't separate the game from reality, thus making everyone else look cool and well balanced.

3: Become famous.

4: Watch the new players roll in.

 

Perfect right?

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Here's a repost of what I posted in the Staff forums a few years back. I'm posting it now because 1.) it's amusing, 2.) I don't care if people from KR read it. 3.) it was written a while back, so maybe the game has improved. Enjoy:

 

 

"Kevin and Katie, who I met up with at KR about an hour after I arrived, can attest to this all being true.

 

Let me begin by saying... If you could cry a drop of water into the Guatemala Sinkhole for every time you saw something that would merit a junkpunch in this game, you'd effectively separate North and South America with a sea of tears. If you haven't guessed, to say I found the experience "a bit overwhelming" is an understatement. For the record: there are more skills in this game than there are punctuation marks in our rulebook.

 

I drove several hours to the middle of Pennsylvania to some random camp called Camp Daddy Allen (sounds creepy). First off, there's no parking. None. There are over 150 people at a game and people pull off to the side of a 1-lane road into the woods and try not to double-park too many people. I have a carload of stuff and my first mission is to make an introduction, find a place to sleep, and perhaps get a tour of the area while it's still light out.

 

Here's my experience, in FAIL/WIN format, with Knight Realms:

 

FAIL: No one is designated to assist new players to game. You either show up with friends who've already played, or you're shit-out-of-luck. The first person I meet looks at me with an irritated glance and she claims all the cabins are 'reserved' (unofficially) and you'll have to ask for the proper Lord's approval. I explain that I'd just like to NPC and the advice I was given was "my cabin's full, you can try walking up and down the road and find someone with a spot open". Eventually, I managed to find a cabin in the middle of the woods where a certain person couldn't make it to game. I was told newbies get to sleep in the corner so I carried my stuff about a quarter mile from my car and dumped it into the cabin.

 

Note: When I was put into the cabin of 3 other people, all I could say is that it was a room full of level 100 assholes. Some guy was supposed to be this awesome badass fighter... and he shows up at game with a poolnoodle that is suppose to be a 'double ended polearm'. One side is a duct-tape box, the other is a duct-tape glaive. He's wearing a piece of black fabric wrapped in a red scarf and had carpenter boots on. This is supposed to be their cream of the crop. It was borderline embarrassing to be in the same cabin as these people.

 

FAIL: The cabins are numerous (about 40 or so) each containing 4 pieces of plywood on 2x4s which constitutes a bed. No mattress or springs.

 

WIN: Encampment looks beautiful. There's a ton of people at game and the porches of cabins are lit with flickering candles, colorful banners, and a few weapon-racks where various smiths hold shop.

 

WIN: In the first 15 minutes I'm there, I see at least 20+ attractive females.

 

WIN: Logistics was the first building I stumbled into and I noticed they had a nice shelving system and array of masks arranged in alphabetical order. Monster NPCs are handed "Monster Cards" with all of the stats, abilities, and defenses of the creature you're going out as. (I'm seriously tempted to print something like this up for our game as it can greatly help new players.)

 

FAIL: There aren't really any RP roles for NPCs. We asked and were given a strange look.

 

FAIL: Only one small rack of clothes and 2 totes of various "dungeon props". Out of 7 or 8 shifts, you're only required to NPC one of them. So they only deal with about 20 NPCs at a time, so it's understandable.

 

WIN: Character creation is easy. You pick a class out of 25 or so, of which you can later opt to multi-class, and once you finish your initial build you're expected to "learn" or "train" new skills from people in-game (actually RP it out during a shift). You start with 10 build points. You get about 4 BP per event, possibly 4 more if you NPC enough. A skill which grants you +1 damage could cost anywhere from 6 to 10 BP. For my character, I got a fun ability called Waylay (since I made an 'assassin'...of course) and could read scrolls. They started me off at 4 Body points and since I chose single-handed edge weapons, I could hit for 2 damage! This leads me to the worst part about the entire game:

 

EPIC FAIL: Combat is not even remotely balanced. Monsters can have 400+ hit points. Literally. Let me reiterate this for those of you that don't want to do math... I would have to hit an average creature at game over 200 times to have a glimmer of hope of killing it. Even the weakest skeletons had 40-60 BP and various defenses. Oh wait, I see another epic fail approaching…

 

EPIC FAIL: Defenses are cheese. If you get hit and you don't feel like taking damage, there are any number of things you can call to get out of jail free. Here's a subset of the "your attack fails" defenses people can have active at any given time: Dodge, Parry, Resist, Natural Resist, Stoneskin, Reflect, Elemental Block, Shield Block, Hero of the Last Stand, and various spells I cant recall the names to. You might think "hey, that's not too bad". Except you can take them all multiple times. There's a good chance you'll see someone with 4-8 dodges and parries which means they DON'T NEED TO MOVE AT ALL while fighting you.

 

Derailing from the WIN/FAIL structure for a minute, I need to elaborate on how horrible this is. Let's say you have 8 NPCs in a shield wall (that's high for an NPC group). A PC could literally walk at a casual pace towards the NPCs as they rain down damage calls such as "7 Crit!", "21 Body Fire", "13 Mithril Ice Backstab!", etc. They could stop, trim their nails, sip a few drinks out of their canteen, say "excuse me a moment" as they push the shields aside and walk behind everyone... then turn around and start attacking... and they'd still be alive. Did I mention they were a Mage and aren't even considered a frontline fighter in this game? The one thing going for them is it's NOT a tap-blocking system (thankfully) or I fear combat would never resolve.

 

Kevin and I, as Greater Skeletons swinging for 6 damage each with 200 body advanced towards a priest who happened to trip over a rock and was on the ground. We spent a good while beating on him until our arms got tired, then he casually got up (not calling defenses, just taking the straight damage) and walked a few feet away, then started fighting again. He actually had his back to us a few times because, frankly, we didn't do "that much damage" per hit. Anyway, there's some light at the end of this tunnel…

EPIC WIN: We kicked ass. I mean, hardcore… kicked… ass. Even Katie, with a shield, managed to take on 3 people at once as a goblin. Jumping back to avoid a strike to the legs made their eyes widen with surprise. Every encounter we went on, we hit them for at least 15-20 times for every 1 hit they got on us. Not exaggerating. Granted, that one hit managed to deal 200-400 damage of unblockable fire or 'divine' damage compared to our critical hits in the double digits, but we held our own quite well.

 

WIN: Shifts last until 6AM and yes they can kill you in your sleep.

 

FAIL: Not like it would ever happen since you'd need to hit them over a hundred times. In fact, they could probably wake up, read the morning paper, then lazily lift their sword and beat you up.

 

FAIL: Auto-win abilities. Are you faster than the other player and think you're going to get away? Think again. They'll probably point a finger at you and call "Perfect Aim: Incinerate!" for 400 damage, auto-hit. Or even better, they'll call 'Leap' or 'Flee' or 'Jump' which means game hold as they walk ~20 steps towards you, then call 'game on' and stun your ass. There are also abilities called Slay which means you die... unless you expend any one of your 15 defenses.

 

FAIL: Combat flow is slower than Steven Hawking reciting the entire Encyclopedia Britannica. In a given combat, game holds can be called by anyone for any reason. Sometimes it's because someone stubbed their toe, sometimes it's because an NPC wandered into a thorn bush, and sometimes it's because they have to stop and think what defenses to call to counter the 5 attacks they just took. When you have 1000 hit points as a level 90 warrior, or whatever, it's difficult to keep track of 6 people hitting you for "26 backstab crit", "8 Magic", "13 Mithril", "20 Body Fire", "2 damage", and "40 Avail Crit Body" at the same time.

WIN: The inn was huge. Lots of games and gambling going on. Lots of women in tights and breasts which were pushed out farther than their swords could reach.

 

WIN: The feast Saturday night had some amazing dessert and marinated pork. Everyone pitched in to help serve. Yay teamwork.

 

WIN/FAIL: People metagame. Why is this a win? Because I came into game dressed as a swashbuckler and no one ever suspected me waylaying them in the back of the head or picking their pockets or palming the coin they set down on the corner of the table. People assume you're whatever class you dress like most. This game is fun as hell for rogue-like characters. I ate like a king and made back all my money by the end of the game (Which we only stayed for half the event).

 

WIN/FAIL: A pick-pocketing game mechanic involves taking a black clothespin and clipping it to a target's pouch, within 10 inches, and after 10 seconds you acquire the contents of that pouch. At first I considered this very lame since it diverts from any real-world skill. However, it was very entertaining at NPC camp to literally "pick pocket" everyone in the room, even the camera guy, without them noticing. It meant nothing as it was OOC, but it was a good time. Unfortunately, the only way you can do that in game is with a GM present. So the odds of this happening when an opportunity presents itself is slim to none.

 

WIN: Minted coins look like old-fashioned medieval metalwork. It was a pressed piece of metal of various chunks of silver or gold-looking metals. The economy is well done in this game and adds greatly to the atmospehere.

 

WIN/FAIL: Garb. Some people had custom Iron Liege hammers and tower shields with EL-Wire, hand-carved wooden shields, etc. Other people showed up in cargo shorts and Led Zepplin t-shirts carrying a pool-noodle with a wad of duct tape at one end. The same spectrum could be said for the level of roleplaying at the game as well. Whippy weapons, knitted chainmail, and plastic plate armor = mega fail.

 

Most Ridiculous Moment of the Event: This award goes to a "duel" between two high level players. They were swinging for 21 body fire and 13 mithril damage, each. They unleashed a flurry of attacks for what seemed like 30 minutes, not blocking anything. One of the guys literally had his sword fall out of his hand 3 times. Then they took a breather because they were so tired. Then started hitting eachother again for another 10 minutes. This is when they started calling out their "parry" and "dodge" nonsense. I was bored. It ended when one of them called game hold and counted damage on their fingers, then fell down.

 

 

FINAL THOUGHTS:

Players in this game don't tell war-stories about how they took down an awesome foe single-handedly and saved the day... no, they talk instead about how much damage they can do and how many buildpoints they'll have next game. It's just a power-creep where the only way to be awesome is to have more points.

 

In conclusion, we left after the Feast (around 8pm) on saturday and headed to Zach's house in Binghamton for a night of booze and hot tub entertainment. I would strongly suggest KoN players give this a try in July to fully appreciate what we fight to protect KoN from turning into. "

 

I made a post about this earlier that was a bit unfair on my part in defense of KR. I misunderstood Rick and fully admit that. I am editing this post to correct the ass-hat demeanor I had earlier today, and instead give a positive 2nd viewpoint on the game. It sounds like the game was a lot different when Rick, Kevin and Katie attended, and a lot of these issues have been fixed. I will cover what Rick posted in sections below.

 

 

"I drove several hours to the middle of Pennsylvania to some random camp called Camp Daddy Allen (sounds creepy). First off, there's no parking. None. There are over 150 people at a game and people pull off to the side of a 1-lane road into the woods and try not to double-park too many people. I have a carload of stuff and my first mission is to make an introduction, find a place to sleep, and perhaps get a tour of the area while it's still light out."

 

There is a parking lot on site that can fit well over the amount of vehicles needed for the entire player base of 150+

 

"FAIL: No one is designated to assist new players to game. You either show up with friends who've already played, or you're shit-out-of-luck. The first person I meet looks at me with an irritated glance and she claims all the cabins are 'reserved' (unofficially) and you'll have to ask for the proper Lord's approval. I explain that I'd just like to NPC and the advice I was given was "my cabin's full, you can try walking up and down the road and find someone with a spot open". Eventually, I managed to find a cabin in the middle of the woods where a certain person couldn't make it to game. I was told newbies get to sleep in the corner so I carried my stuff about a quarter mile from my car and dumped it into the cabin."

 

 

There are several new player martials, and the first portion of the event is dedicated to helping new players come into game, and get their feet wet. There are even new player mods designated to make new players feel important, and give them something they can do upon entering town. Furthermore, there are no reserving of the cabins. It's first come, first served. You get a bunk, and put your crap on it. They cannot kick you out of a bed. If beds are full, then you ask staff where a good place to sleep is. The only time you should walk up and down the road looking for a free bed, is when all other bunks are taken. If that is the case, there is an overflow area where people can sleep, especially for NPCs.

 

"When I was put into the cabin of 3 other people, all I could say is that it was a room full of level 100 assholes. Some guy was supposed to be this awesome badass fighter... and he shows up at game with a poolnoodle that is suppose to be a 'double ended polearm'. One side is a duct-tape box, the other is a duct-tape glaive. He's wearing a piece of black fabric wrapped in a red scarf and had carpenter boots on. This is supposed to be their cream of the crop. It was borderline embarrassing to be in the same cabin as these people."

 

There are a few peole who don't have/can't afford propper garb, but for the most part, everyone's costuming and garb is jaw droppingly amazing. This one person DOES NOT represent the massive amount of players who spend hundreds and thousands of dollars on their garb to be presentable.

 

"The cabins are numerous (about 40 or so) each containing 4 pieces of plywood on 2x4s which constitutes a bed. No mattress or springs."

 

The cabins are actual heated cabins, with real beds, and actual mattresses with springs.

 

"There aren't really any RP roles for NPCs. We asked and were given a strange look."

 

WRONG: The staff there fully supports RP from their NPCs. Seldomly is there a group of NPCs sent out that actually has no RP base to them. The RP is abundant, and plentiful, as well as in depth and stimulating.

 

"Only one small rack of clothes and 2 totes of various "dungeon props". Out of 7 or 8 shifts, you're only required to NPC one of them. So they only deal with about 20 NPCs at a time, so it's understandable."

 

There are over 20 totes of clothing and props, and numerous totes of masks and makeup.

 

"Combat is not even remotely balanced. Monsters can have 400+ hit points. Literally. Let me reiterate this for those of you that don't want to do math... I would have to hit an average creature at game over 200 times to have a glimmer of hope of killing it. Even the weakest skeletons had 40-60 BP and various defenses. Oh wait, I see another epic fail approaching…"

 

 

SOMEWHAT TRUE: This is a game where people are expected to work together and not solo. They use a high body point system, and people are expected to not go out alone. They expect large groups of PCs to engage the monsters, so they cannot make their BP super low. They have to be high. This makes it balanced in the fact that if they made their monsters able to be defeated by one PC, then noone would ever be challenged at the kind of game this is. Also, the players are good enough to know that if they are a 300 BP monster, they will most likely give the three PCs they stumble across a chance to get away and inform the town of their presence, because they are not just there to kill PCs. However, if a player is dumb and insists on attacking said monster, then their death is on them, and not the NPC.

 

"EPIC FAIL: Defenses are cheese. If you get hit and you don't feel like taking damage, there are any number of things you can call to get out of jail free. Here's a subset of the "your attack fails" defenses people can have active at any given time: Dodge, Parry, Resist, Natural Resist, Stoneskin, Reflect, Elemental Block, Shield Block, Hero of the Last Stand, and various spells I cant recall the names to. You might think "hey, that's not too bad". Except you can take them all multiple times. There's a good chance you'll see someone with 4-8 dodges and parries which means they DON'T NEED TO MOVE AT ALL while fighting you.

 

Derailing from the WIN/FAIL structure for a minute, I need to elaborate on how horrible this is. Let's say you have 8 NPCs in a shield wall (that's high for an NPC group). A PC could literally walk at a casual pace towards the NPCs as they rain down damage calls such as "7 Crit!", "21 Body Fire", "13 Mithril Ice Backstab!", etc. They could stop, trim their nails, sip a few drinks out of their canteen, say "excuse me a moment" as they push the shields aside and walk behind everyone... then turn around and start attacking... and they'd still be alive. Did I mention they were a Mage and aren't even considered a frontline fighter in this game? The one thing going for them is it's NOT a tap-blocking system (thankfully) or I fear combat would never resolve.

 

Kevin and I, as Greater Skeletons swinging for 6 damage each with 200 body advanced towards a priest who happened to trip over a rock and was on the ground. We spent a good while beating on him until our arms got tired, then he casually got up (not calling defenses, just taking the straight damage) and walked a few feet away, then started fighting again. He actually had his back to us a few times because, frankly, we didn't do "that much damage" per hit. Anyway, there's some light at the end of this tunnel…"

 

Let me just say that there are just as many attacks that can break these defenses as there are defenses. The staff spends hundreds of hours coming up with defenses and offensesw that balance each other out. Plus each defense you can only use a few times per game period. Now let me do some math. Parry costs 6 build usually to buy. That's a lot of build. Say I buy 3 parry's. I get hit 75 times. I can only stop 3 of those 75 strikes before I am out of parry's to use. How is this different than your Shadow Skin? The only difference is it cannot be cast on yourself over and over again.

 

The priest example is a rarity. Something like that only happens once every so often. This is not a common occurrence.

 

"WIN: Shifts last until 6AM and yes they can kill you in your sleep. FAIL: Not like it would ever happen since you'd need to hit them over a hundred times. In fact, they could probably wake up, read the morning paper, then lazily lift their sword and beat you up."

 

If you are sleeping, it's an automatic kill for them.

 

"FAIL: Auto-win abilities. Are you faster than the other player and think you're going to get away? Think again. They'll probably point a finger at you and call "Perfect Aim: Incinerate!" for 400 damage, auto-hit. Or even better, they'll call 'Leap' or 'Flee' or 'Jump' which means game hold as they walk ~20 steps towards you, then call 'game on' and stun your ass. There are also abilities called Slay which means you die... unless you expend any one of your 15 defenses."

 

It sounds like there were some issues back then, but the rules have cleaned up a lot of them. Slay does not automatically kill you.

 

"WIN/FAIL: A pick-pocketing game mechanic involves taking a black clothespin and clipping it to a target's pouch, within 10 inches, and after 10 seconds you acquire the contents of that pouch. At first I considered this very lame since it diverts from any real-world skill. However, it was very entertaining at NPC camp to literally "pick pocket" everyone in the room, even the camera guy, without them noticing. It meant nothing as it was OOC, but it was a good time. Unfortunately, the only way you can do that in game is with a GM present. So the odds of this happening when an opportunity presents itself is slim to none."

 

Some people will never have the finesse needed to pick someone's actual pouch like the thief they are portraying. This solves that problem. Keep your damn eyes open and your pouches buried if you want to hold on to your shit.

 

 

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Master Mike, this is his impression of the game several years ago. It's possible, even highly likely that it's improved dramatically since then. It was meant as an amusing anecdote and he suggested that we all visit it for ourselves to make our own judgement. I appreciate your detailed rebuttal though. It's quite thorough.

 

*edit* I posted this before getting to the end of your post. Pull your head out of your ass and reread his first line.

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His original post was from June 2010. Our game has changed a lot over the years, I'd expect other LARPs to change as well.

 

I hope I don't need to point out that Tony's views don't necessarily represent the views of KoN and MVGC inc. He's an individual, talking about his experience, as you are an individual, talking about your experience.

 

I hope every LARPer gets a chance to go visit another LARP, just to broaden their horizon a little bit, get a feel for what other people find fun.

 

I'd also encourage anyone who goes to another LARP to make a post about it here, what you liked, what you didn't like. Maybe some other KoN people will take the trip out, maybe your post will convince them it's worth skipping, whatever.

 

KoN is comfortable the way it is, we don't really feel threatened by other LARPs, instead we encourage you to go check them out!

 

-Dan

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Mike, I find your response to be condescending and reactive. It makes it really difficult to see your point of view when it reads like you're only really interested in being "right" here, and not having a conversation. I think that you're really disrespecting Rick's right to have an opinion, and that you are just as guilty of making generalizing statements about a group of hobbyists in a particular game based on that opinion.

 

That being said, I hope I'm wrong. I hope you didn't mean to come off the way you did. I hope you really don't believe that this is reflective of what we all think, and that we're bad or wrong if it is.

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I could EASILY slander Novitas into the mud, but I don't because I respect other people's hard work and dedication to what they consider to be a fulfilling hobby.

 

And because I'd take it very personally.

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Okay I did not see Rick's #3 reason. So Rick I apologize about the personal stuff. If that was truly your experience a few years back then I can see why you would be upset about the game. If it was like that 3 years ago, and I had attended, I probably never would have gone back. If it was indeed like that then they have seriously improved. But ya, I apologize fully about my misinterpretation. Sorry man. To everyone else, sorry for being the buzz kill on this thread.

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hey mike i understand that your a bit upset about the review and your entitled to your opinion. while happy that you posted a rebuttel about it and cleared some misconceptions up you could have gone with a different approach. rick even said to the fact that this review was written a few years back and it was entirely possible they made improvements. with that said i am still intriged to check it out for my self.

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:blink:

 

 

I really hope you make your way back to us one day. :)

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hey mike i understand that your a bit upset about the review and your entitled to your opinion. while happy that you posted a rebuttel about it and cleared some misconceptions up you could have gone with a different approach. rick even said to the fact that this review was written a few years back and it was entirely possible they made improvements. with that said i am still intriged to check it out for my self.

 

Yup I agree, and fully admit to being a jack-ass. I overlooked the part about him possibly being wrong and I apologize about my outburst. Rick is a good guy, and I don't think any less of him. I'll handle things a bit more civil in the future.

 

 

 

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Okay I edited my original post so that is was more civil, and admitted I was in the wrong, and it was a misunderstanding. Re-read above to see the changes made.

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The point is that a group of new players went to KR and had a mixed experience.

 

This isn't a claim to know the inner-workings of KR game balance or how the game is actually structured; it's a first impression of how things were handled the time I went.

 

It's not an exaggeration, but it may be a misrepresentation of the game as a whole. Yes, the 3 people I bunked with were over level 100 and yes they were assholes.

 

If I offended people with my first impressions of KR, suck it up and deal with it. It happened and I felt compelled to comment on it in a subjective way.

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The point is that a group of new players went to KR and had a mixed experience.

 

This isn't a claim to know the inner-workings of KR game balance or how the game is actually structured; it's a first impression of how things were handled the time I went.

 

It's not an exaggeration, but it may be a misrepresentation of the game as a whole. Yes, the 3 people I bunked with were over level 100 and yes they were assholes.

 

If I offended people with my first impressions of KR, suck it up and deal with it. It happened and I felt compelled to comment on it in a subjective way.

 

Don't take this as me arguing with you. I already admitted my response was unfair, and you have your right to post your opinion. But just to kill my curiousity, what was the reason for bringing all these points up again? I realize you had a terrible experience a few years back, and it is definitely your right to let people know that it was not the best experience for you. But, aside from the fact that you have not been back since the game became actually fun, what was the purpose of bringing all of this up again, in the process giving people the impression that the game is still like that?

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Don't take this as me arguing with you. I already admitted my response was unfair, and you have your right to post your opinion. But just to kill my curiousity, what was the reason for bringing all these points up again? I realize you had a terrible experience a few years back, and it is definitely your right to let people know that it was not the best experience for you. But, aside from the fact that you have not been back since the game became actually fun, what was the purpose of bringing all of this up again, in the process giving people the impression that the game is still like that?

 

He gave his reasons in his 1st post of re-posting the story. While some of it was amusing some of it was important to know, it gave me a reason to check the site and give me an idea what to look at and after reading the rules I lost a good portion of interest.

 

Welcome to the internet people are going to post their opinions, sitting here trying to defend it on every point more so when you haven't read most of the post at all is hurting your case way more than helping it. Some people here probably want to check KR out again if they get time but that's their choice and if it happens, Yay! if not oh well there are plenty LARPs around and people are going to go to the ones they enjoy more.

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Yup I agree, and fully admit to being a jack-ass. I overlooked the part about him possibly being wrong and I apologize about my outburst. Rick is a good guy, and I don't think any less of him. I'll handle things a bit more civil in the future.

 

I missed the unedited post, but I gotta give credit for a guy that will admit being wrong on the internet.

 

 

 

 

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This isn't the anonymous internet. We all know each other.

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