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Loot Is Broken

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Agreed. Loot is nice, but the primary reason why I play KoN opposed to Dag is because of the RP. I have more fun with the stories about knife fighting orcs then I do counting my coin....Though I do love counting coin, don't get me wrong.

 

TL;DR - Loot is nice, but RP is nicer.

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I know it's metagaming to do the math, but I assume it's going to happen. The vocal minority will jump up and say "I will save your farm, m'lady!" while the Drens and the Raineses and the players like I used to be do the math in the head.

 

 

another example, though some would calculate this differently.

Super Ooze

(4 people under the net, 4 people throwing extra tagbags, 60 monstrous body ooze)

1 = 5-9 NPCs

1 = NPCs have missile or thrown weapons (any number)

1 = NPCs can cast spells or have effects level 1 (Arbitrary, 1-acid spackets)

2 = each NPC with a Damage Requirement Magic, Silver, Nature, Poison

1 = each NPC with thrown poisons or acid

2 = each Monstrous NPC

0 = NPC hits for 1-2

31 = NPC has 60-61 body

0 = NPCs are coming to town

+2 = each NPC that is a superior fighter (Rick King is an excellent spacket tosser)

41 = total

82 coin

20 levels of consumables

80 coin worth of magic items

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To momentarily derail this: I think a decent way to get players more interested in jumping up to help a hook, is to have recurring hooks. We send farmers and villagers and buzzers and merchants into town all the time. We have set shifts and set parties on each shift. Why is it more difficult to have a farmer that the pcs know and remember having trouble with those damned orcs again?

Or to encourage players to stop doing math just show cleavage, whatever.

 

derailing over.

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spacket to the head excellent. :P

 

(Did we get ANYTHING for that one other than a great story?)

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I'd like to mention that the ooze wouldve been chumped by poison immunity and a nature damage weapon.

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(we realized that afterwards. oops.)

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Eh, i played an ooze once that stumbled upon giovanni and catalus. Both poison immune, and giovanni had a shiny nature blade. Short encounter :P

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Damage reduction doesn't increase encounter DC, just limits who can participate in the encounter and/or costs consumables. sad.gif

Thats another thread though.

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As others have said (Jenica), our characters should still want to help without hesitation because it's innocents being harmed by monsters. Whoever's crunching numbers BEFORE roleplaying needs to be junkpunched.

 

What about PCs that crunch risk/effort vs reward IC numbers before deciding to do something or not? :P

 

Anyways, I like Dave's idea. As a player I always get frustrated with walking waaaay out some place, fight a hard fight, only to get a thank you and 10 coin. The numbers might need some tweaking, but it's worth looking at.

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I'd like to mention that the ooze wouldve been chumped by poison immunity and a nature damage weapon.

 

Yep. Dumb of us. Finally resorted to Shadowskin and Primal Form.

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What about PCs that crunch risk/effort vs reward IC numbers before deciding to do something or not? :P

 

Fine. From now on, every NPC hook to a low-level encounter I play will go directly to the Doctor, not pass go, not collect 200 coin, and cry at him. Problem solved. :P

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Second, you can get a basic idea of what a group's loot is by looking at all of the above. If PCs know that a group has absolutely no chance of having good loot then what is the reason for fighting said group?

I also feel that, for the same reason, it turns Novitas into a video game. BATTLE SCENE Slay 4 bandits, loot 6 coin, Final Fantasy victory music plays*. Next time you see 4 bandits guess whats going to happen again...

 

I am looking at this the same way I do with every monster I fight for the first time. The Iron Golem explodes after death, what did I learn? Take them out with range.

A troll is DR nature. The first time I fought a troll I tried to beat it to death until a PC killed it with a nature weapon. What did I learn? Kill trolls with nature weapons.

I know I would do the same thing with loot. Is it metagaming after you kill so many bandits to know what they normaly carry? I still think that it would take away how realistic the game is.

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Bandits vary pretty wildly. Sometimes they're 1/1 schlubs, sometimes they're weapon masters.

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All complaints about this making the game too predictable/less exciting are going to be ignored. Multiplayer RPG games like KoN thrive on consistency, not on randomness. Small amounts of random are OK, so long as they're set within a larger framework of consistency. Right now, the risk vs. reward math is way too random. Basically, you're just gambling every time you consider fighting a monster. It's far less work and far more profitable to simply stay in town and merchant.

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You also have to keep things in context. Just because he is a 'bandit leader' doesn't mean he is swimming in lootz. To someone hiding from the law, who might not have eaten in a couple of days, 10 coin might just be a fortune.

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Why do we go kill bad stuff that's loot-lite?

Because we're all supposed to be doing this because it's a roleplaying game.

Because if it's a roleplaying game, orcs don't get to roam Pinedale and kill peasants while adventurers sit at the fire and say "not worth the money".

Because we aren't metagamers.

Because beating wimpy things with sticks is fun even if it only results in a few coin.

 

Well said.

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neccero has been around pinedale long enough to have a general idea of what to expect in any average encounter with "x" type of creature. in fact he is becoming somewhat of an expert on how to deal with justr about any creature found around the town as have most of everyone else who has been in pinedale for a year plus. orcs are known to be stupid and more often then not poor. same with lesser undead. now someone who's charector is green with no combat experiance or newly arrived and is not familer with the more uncommon creatures that inhabit novitas wouldn't know these things and should play thier knowledge accordingly. neccero views encounters not on whats to be fought but more on how far away do i have to go. this is mainly for because of my messed up knee.

 

 

do i love lootz of course but i am at the point where i am comfortable with what i have. i love this idea and support it wholeheartedly. as dave h. said it is far more profitable to stay in town and merchant it up right now. haveing a consistant loot chart is a great idea.

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could we actually have final fantasy style victory music play after and encounter?

 

*milksnort*

 

+1

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I was also wondering, since with this system the loot is proportional to the power level of monsters, if we would give a small bonus as the total amount of loot sent out increases.

 

example:

Beginning of first shift: everyone's raring to go full stamina, full power: no bonus

end of the shift: everyone's dead tired, and out of power, x2 multiplier

 

 

 

I don't know if this is mitigated by the fact that NPCs also have to hike their way out there and fight their way back but I feel like the "difficulty" of encounters naturally increase as the day goes by thus their loot might also increase.

 

PS how do people feel about using RP as the treasure, like hooks being planted inside encounters. A few events ago we were bad guys looking for something, this even we had a related scenario. before the fighting started we had a ton of RP. how does that calculate into the loot since RP is it's own reward?

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In theory, I like this idea, but I think one inherent problem with it is that it limits the way a GM can design an encounter. Perhaps they want to have X creatures using Y powers, but those two things together cause the encounter to have an incredible amount of coin that doesn't reflect the "Endgame" of the quest. Sometimes you want guards just for show. Sometimes its a pack of angry farmers who all have weapons doing the mob thing, and the PCs need to quiet them down. But according to the chart, those farmers would have to have coin on them. Perhaps this is already covered, but I just wonder if it throws a wrench in the freedom a GM would ordinarily have when putting an encounter together.

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if the guards are nothing more then show then the guards will remain alive and thus the pc party wont ghet the guards loot.

 

the farmers no matter how well armed and armored are still going to be realtively easy to kill. and as such they would only have a few coin on them.

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Sorry, I didn't realize there were 5 pages to this topic before I posted. Went back and read them some of what I said already got covered. Never mind

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Who cares about coin....if you have 700? why do you want more. If people are poor and barely surviving then we should address this. I think/hope the real problem is that people will walk far far away and get a lame plot with no coin. I think if we had the farther plot more in-depth then we would get less complaining. Do we have a lot of people who are really upset about this issue of no coin? Are people scraping by on coin like me? Aren't hugs priceless?

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from my own experiances early on in my charector yes not having coin is upsetting. not so much as i want coin but more of i need coin so i can get this (insert damage type) weapon so i can be able to fight this creature. at this point i am not hurting for coin. as long as i have enough to feed myself and keep me in drink i am happy but not everyone is content surviving on handouts and/or skilled enough to provide for themselves.

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If we bump up the coin output significantly I think we will need to raise some of the prices of the things players build to go with it. I think we would need to put this price increase on a delay, so that there is time to get the money in the economy before the players trying to do production or pay the crafters don't get screwed.

 

I think if we use the system as described we will be putting 3-4 times more coin out each shift. That sounds great at first, but I think it's really dumb for everyone to be walking around with hundreds of coin in their pockets and no way to spend it so that it eventually cycles back to logistics.

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