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Kender

On longer spears

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Why don't you guys permanently attach a bandshoppe pole and a half together? Less even, maybe only 2 more feet.

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For me it's a matter of structural integrity. After having used one for a while people love to abuse other people's spears. Drive them into the ground, step extra hard on them, yank them at funny angles/around corners, fall on them, ect. Joining two poles makes for a weakness in the integrity of the core. Like how welded objects usually give at the weld before breaking elsewhere. Last thing I need is to throw a shot at someone, have someone step on/fall on my spear and snap it off at the join (which would probably be right in front of my hands).

 

If you know of a super tough way to do it that won't give that much sooner then a single core would, let me know and I'll order some more poles to try it.

 

Also, only semi related, but once you get above 8' or so it's hard to move them long distances without a trailer or a shipping tube. Strapping them to the roof of the car only works so well.

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It would seem to me that a 2' tube or solid rod inside the join, and if the join is at your grip end instead of at the business end, and you wouldn't have to worry about structural integrity. My only worry would be about glue, not fiberglass.

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It would seem to me that a 2' tube or solid rod inside the join, and if the join is at your grip end instead of at the business end, and you wouldn't have to worry about structural integrity. My only worry would be about glue, not fiberglass.

 

I wasn't saying the fiberglass would give, but the join as a whole. If my rough math is right, at adding 4" to the spear the join would be past my leading hand in a solid, normal grip. Now if I throw a shot at someone and some jerk on the other side grabs my spear and pulls real hard, and I pull back not wanting to be disarmed, and that join weakens enough I'll end up holding a spear pommel and about 4' of haft and that other guy has the rest...and I've been disarmed for the rest of the event because my weapon just broke. With a solid 8' bandshopee core I generally don't have to worry about that unless I'm fighting the frickin' Hulk and Iron Man does an elbow drop on my haft.

 

Personally I'd rather have a weapon I know, for a fact, will stay in one piece outside of insane circumstances. One piece cores are where it's at. For something like KoN I'd splice a pole just to be a jerk, but at Dag it seems like a terrible idea.

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You can't use a metal rod in the join. That's a metal cored weapon.

 

I'm with Phil. Seems like a bad idea.

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Metal would be silly, i was thinking wood or fiberglass or something.

 

Also it seems like its been done before, according to the internet. There are sources of 10 foot fiberglass, like mcmaster-carr, but shipping is crazy.

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I absolutely think that in a line fight that 12-24 extra inches would mean youre killing the other spearmen instead of worrying about them killing you.

 

Yes it might break at the join, but who cares? A good shield is a hundred bucks in materials, a good spear is what, thirty counting your time?

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You can get 9' cores from several places. I keep posting them, and no one buys them.

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Dowels will break, come unglued, or work their way through the poles and foul one/both of them as the weapon flexes. Gluing two of them together is a terrible idea. Unless, that is, you can find some way to make the joining dowel flex at exactly the same rate at the exact same time as the poles as if was a natural part of the weapon.

 

I'm not worried about the cost individually. I am worried about breaking a spear a day at, say, Rag. While the extra length will indeed give us more kills, the cost of replacing/repairing that many weapons is more then I'm willing to spend. I'd rather just buy a 10-12' pole, with the absurd shipping, then a dozen or so 8' poles and spend the extra time glueing dowels into trimmed off rods.

 

Also consider that I have a jeep. Unless we get a 12' trailer for Rag, at least, moving the modded poles will most likely cause them to break. I'd have to strap them to the roof of my jeep. As the jeep drives, little bumps will make the weapons flex, big bumps will make lots of flex. They'll come apart in transport just getting to Rag.

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You can get 9' cores from several places. I keep posting them, and no one buys them.

 

Now I have a real job, with a real paycheck, I'll be getting a few of them soon.

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I totally do not get the problem.

 

Order a 2 foot piece of fiberglass rod of the correct diameter to match the ID of a bandshoppe pole, add two feet to the end of your spear, win.

 

And why would you "Break a spear a day at rag"? Why wouldn't you have one or two killer spears, and a backup 8 footer?

 

Why does everyone read "use a rod to join the poles" as "GLUE THE POLES TOGETHER WITH PAPER MACHE AND DREAMS"

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Why does everyone read "use a rod to join the poles" as "GLUE THE POLES TOGETHER WITH PAPER MACHE AND DREAMS"

 

Because you'd need dreams not to have that shit fall apart during real heavy use.

 

I'll break it down simply. Shit flexes. Spears flex as you use them to stab people. Its not much flex unless you stab really hard, like at someone in armor (something that happens a lot at Dag events). Having one spot that flexes differently puts lots of strain at that spot. Welds are not stronger then the surrounding material. It's true of metal, plastic, or anything. Anyone that's played tabletop war games will tell you those things usually break along where the got glued, even if you pin them (which is what you are suggesting, in essence). Experience tells me this is a shitty idea. I've rigged more then my fair share of things together. Rough play will make the spear fall apart at the join. If not during the first battle it'll happen sooner or later.

 

To:dr version;

 

Good idea I theory, but reality shits all over it. Spend the money to get a bigger pole rather then try and ghetto rig that shit.

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whatever, play with shitty eight foot spears like the rest of dag.

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My think tank and I are grinding our heads together on how to make it work, even in theory. We might have something, that's not a dowel, but we want to ponder it over first and/or stress test it first.

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it's

http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php/topic,5819.0.html

 

been

 

done

http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php/topic,24319.0.html

 

before.

 

Your imagined larp physics are no match for "I built this and it lived through rag with no problem"

 

Although I believe you'd want to run that modular design past BH to see how strictly he's sticking to the "No metal cored weapons" thing.

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I've seen fiberglass poles give at joins before without that much force being applied after having it flexed repeatedly. It wasn't LARP physics, but real world "Holy fuck where did that canopy go" physics I was basing my arguments on. That and seeing what my weapon does when I stab bitches with it.

 

I'll poke BH. I had thought about a screw, but any that are worthwhile would be metal, so I chalked that up to "no metal cores" and moved on. If he'll allow modular tech like that, I'm all over it.

 

Although I still don't think just glueing a dowel inside would work for me. I play rough, especially if my target is in armor.

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stop saying dowel.

 

Fiberglass rod.

 

The main stress you're putting on the spear is lengthwise compression, something that a join ought to handle very well. Other people yanking or stepping on it all happens at the business end, so at the worst case you have to let go and it's no worse off than a regular pole.

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Dowel is technically the right word. More accurately we're talking about a dowel pin, in this application. ;)

 

However there is a good amount of flex in a good two hand thrust, enough I've seen my pole flex some. If the join was behind my leading hand it should be okay. Should. That limits it to about 3' or so in length. If BH clears the modular design we could get much more length out of it. However any gains are balanced out with how unwieldy the weapon becomes. 12' would be the longest I'd go ever. Any more then that and you are going to be practically useless in a line fight. While you can poke all kinds of people, weapon length means you've got to stand back from the wall to do anything, which limits shots and makes you a bigger target for archers. 10' might be a happy medium. However with that modular tech, if okayed, we can just make several lengths of grip/pommel and pick as needed.

 

As for the letting go part...would you want to let go of your sword, only to have it turned around on you? That spear is my main defense and offense. I ain't letting go of shit unless I -Have- to.

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nope, this idea is terrible and will never work, you can't do it.

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nope, this idea is terrible and will never work, you can't do it.

 

I never said you couldn't. You could try anything you wanted. If i have confidence itll work or not is another matter. I said the original idea of gluing a dowel pin inside two bandshope poles was a bad idea and probably wouldn't work. Should and will be have too very different meanings, if you are referring to my last post. It should of rained last weekend for most of Saturday. Didn't though. ;)

 

I'm not opposed to trying the modular tech to see how it works, especially since it breaks down for easier transport. I won't be glueing any dowel pins though, if only because that seems slightly more risky in my book and harder to transport. I like to cut down on as many risks as possible with my kit and getting it to the fight is important. I'd still prefer a solid core, but I'll take what I can get.

 

Now cheer up. We've reached a solution-ish and are going to give it a try pending BH giving the okay.

 

Also, I'm not sure how much good a longer spear would do during, say, the Wight test. Getting better with the 8' might do us more good ranking wise. Just a thought. Bigger is not always better.

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a 10 or 12 foot spear would be killer on the line. Remember that time, last saturday, where you were a half a step short? Getting that spearman 3 or 4 columns down the line? I don't think the utility of a long spear is in question(Shouldn't be at least).

 

We put barstock in the handles of weapons, so I don't see why you can't put a bolt or screw in the handle of a spear. Either way, checking with the appropriate people is good.

 

The links dan posted seem like solid tutorials on how to add an extra few feet. I've seen spears made with joins before. They are fine. As for big spears in small fights? I saw a two man tourny with Warthog and a shieldman own the entire thing. He was using a 12 footer or something like that at the time. He had a backup sword and a passive shield, but what good spearman doesn't.

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So the answer to my original question was "We didn't think of it and never spent any effort searching the dag forums" got it.

 

I want our spearmen to have the option of fighting with longer spears on the line, and Jordan wasn't taking any initiative on it even after seeing Magnus' 14 foot modular spear and getting super spear envy. I hope one of you figure something out and get the other spears to drink the koolaid.

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Aww fuck it. I'll build one anyways. I need to order a few poles for some other projects. I should be able to make that happen early next week or over the weekend. I'll let y'all know how it turns out. I'll take it to practice and stress test the fuck out of it once it's done.

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I'll get one of mine down here to make one. She's pretty nasty with a spear as is, I'd love to see her with that extra reach.

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/insertperverthere

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