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NarenZade

Economy, Magic Item Decay & POWER CRYSTALS

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It's a cool idea, but it makes something in my stomach twist. I also would rather have coin/items sent out less, and have items that are shifted back to logistics take longer to go back in. I feel like having a system of loot that is computerized makes too much loot go out and not even for the fun of it. People who know this system can get more loot.

 

This is also talking to some one who has tried to give away most of their magic items unless they are gifts and spends most of her coin at the Inn.

 

I agree with Tony. Let magic items die when the prop dies. It's annoying but more realistic. Don't send out magic items every game, and send in less coin. OR send in more merchants who can buy things at a reasonable price.

 

 

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I agree with Tony and Jamie.

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I think this would be interesting, and I like the idea...but the real problem is the loot system. The amount of coin and items that have been appearing since the change have been economy-breaking. When I started Novitas, we were happy (Ok...some of us were happy) when an Orc dropped a copper instead of nothing. Now it's pretty common to kill an Orc that has 5-10 coin. Magic items as loot were rare, but now we seem to get at least one every other encounter (if not every encounter). When I started playing, an elven steel weapon was relatively rare, and now half the PCs have one (if not two).

 

Back on topic, I like the crystal idea, but I think that charges per item will make this too much of a headache for players/logistics. Using just the crystals, the magic item database can add an end date next to an item, and if we restrict crystal usage to sign-in we can easily keep track of when items will expire. If we allow Tinkers to make them, the suggested cost per crystal seems a bit too low.

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While I agree with what this idea is trying to accomplish, I don't like the method. Having expiration dates on magic items or 100+ charges to keep record of both sound like a bad time.

 

One or two people have already noted that if we don't want the game economy flooded with magic items, then magic items need to stop being put into game for free as loot faster than they are taken out of game by prop degradation or other means. I don't pay any attention to anyone who complains about not enough loot going out during an event. To me, that's like complaining about the weather. Get over it; try again next month. There's a lot more to this game than acquiring wealth and magic items.

 

I have a number of ideas that could reduce the amount of wealth:

 

1. Send in more things for PCs to spend their coin on. Entertainers, merchants selling consumables, merchants peddling luxury wears like alcohol or drugs, merchants selling numbered encampment props, beggars, convenience spellcasters ("mend ya armor for two coin sir?"), hired mercenaries, scholars with expert knowledge on monsters or setting lore, have hook NPCs charge a finders fee for their information on monster dens. The limit is your imagination. Pinedale is a town of great wealth. Why aren't more commoners trying to get in on that wealth any way they can?

 

2. Send in competent bandits, thieves and muggers. Give them the ability to actually drop PCs that they can catch in a weak moment and the green light to take whatever they can. If they manage to steal coin or game-owned items then those items are put at the end of the line for filtering back in. The Freelands are a rough place without rule of law. For PCs to get that sense, robbers need to do more than just hassle farmers and fall on the PCs' swords.

 

3. A boss monster that can only be stopped, killed, put back to sleep or turned back into human form by sacrificing an item of a particular kind in some way.

 

4. Slow down the input. No effort to remove items from game will be effective if our loot system keeps churning them back out at the same pace. We have to ease off the throttle. If PCs don't have enough weapons then let someone take up Weaponsmithing to fill the gap. The Merchant RP skill needs a chance to shine. I'd love to see players turn to a local Merchant for trade-ins.

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Another thing we could do with merchants.

 

We have a ton of props, and we have people who want to pull items out of game. So instead of sending these items into game on an NPC we could let merchants 'buy' the prop for selling with IG coin. They can then either sell it as a generic item(worth coin) or make it into something magical (changing it how it would need to be changed, if desired.) as if they had bought it themselves. The prop would be useable, made to be better, and then people with little money out of game could still be part of the IG economy.

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Also, as a people, we need to learn how to haggle. We are all far to nice at pricing things for each other.

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If too much magic is the problem just have a magic item buy back like the police so with guns from time to time

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Random thought: You can pay the $25 for the game fee OR pay 300 coin instead once a season?

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Random thought: You can pay the $25 for the game fee OR pay 300 coin instead once a season?

 

We'd be screwing over our out of game economy to try and correct our fictional one. If we actually get to the point where there's enough concern about the in game economy to start working on making corrections to it, we should focus on it within the scope of the game and not tie it to out of game finances.

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I dont know... Plex works pretty well in EVE. :)

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We'd be screwing over our out of game economy to try and correct our fictional one. If we actually get to the point where there's enough concern about the in game economy to start working on making corrections to it, we should focus on it within the scope of the game and not tie it to out of game finances.

 

I like it as the counterbalance to being able to buy xp. And I'm totally not surprised you hate this idea, by the way. :D

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Random thought: You can pay the $25 for the game fee OR pay 300 coin instead once a season?

 

Because we can't go to Vanderkamp and go "Here is a check for $600 and here is a sack with 3,000 copper coins" to pay for a weekend. The more stuff like that we do the less money we have to spend on other things for the game, like improvements to Vanderkamp, props for plots, and so on.

 

 

Here is my 2 cents on "fixing" the economy:

 

1) Send out fewer magic items and make the ones that do go out smaller. Not every event needs an "OMGZ Awesome" item.

 

2) The coin, in general, is fine. Keeping the amount of coin relative to the difficulty and the location of the plot is alright.

 

3) Send in merchants that are willing to haggle, either to sell things or to buy them. I'd gladly sell off "junk" to a merchant at a fraction of the "market value", or even barter the items away for something more useful. A sack full of potions for an Elven Steel bowl (which is a relatively cheap tinkering item)? Hell yes.

 

4) More opportunities to blow coin for things. Money changers charging for their services, jewelry/gem merchants with slightly inflated prices, wine merchants (selling cider or other bottled beverages obviously), as mentioned before convenience spell casters, and so on. All sorts of things, if marketed to the right people, can move coin/items out of game.

 

I do want to say, though, as a long time player I do enjoy actually having coin to spend now. I just wish I had more ways to move coin/items/consumables out of game without having to take a RP skill to do it.

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I dont know... Plex works pretty well in EVE. :)/>

 

 

I like it as the counterbalance to being able to buy xp. And I'm totally not surprised you hate this idea, by the way. :D/>

 

 

Plex works in EVE because CCP still gets their money. The equivalent in KoN would be if I paid your entry fee but you gave me 300 coin for my character, which does not remove any coin from the economy.

 

I'm not trying to tear down your ideas for the hell of it Drew. The problem with this is as Phil said, the sign in cash goes to pay the bills.

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Because we can't go to Vanderkamp and go "Here is a check for $600 and here is a sack with 3,000 copper coins" to pay for a weekend.

 

 

Actually...

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This reminds me of when me and some other economic majors analyzed the effects of adventurers on a small town over the course of years, it had some interesting results to say the least

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There's merit in following through with methods we've previously discussed and gathering some info about efficacy.

 

I'm considering sending in a vendor with a stack of rituals like those that have been released but without the unique ritual item requirement. Things like the Revenant ritual and Nature's Harmony one, more in development too.

 

The cost is that they eat up coin, gems, or small magic items.

 

Any interest in an IC auction at the Harvest Festival?

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I wouldn't like that at all. Not only would it take up a decent amount of time, I really feel like it would be excluding the new/poor PCs at Harvest Fest when its supposed to be a good time with the IC community. However, Maybe at Feb Feast we could make a item or two for IC coin. Though its only one opinion.

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Steve, this is an attempt to give players with big bankrolls something exciting to spend their money on. Viewed that way, do you think it would work?

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Yes. Im sure it would. A IC auction would be fun. Throw a couple mundane but really nice garb peices, riutals, maybe even going back to a long old idea but auction off a slave/servant rights that has a effect attached like +2 production or an extra lore request. You could do a lot with it too. Hire protection for the auction and what not. I think its a great idea that should be tried at least once or twice that would drain coin out from people given items of interest.

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Nope. Ritualist selling rituals for PC use and a few really powerful ones to be cast after the auction.

 

Nope. Ritualist selling rituals for PC use and a few really powerful ones to be cast after the auction.

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Just to remind the folk having this debate... there are new and otherwise lower level characters running around with minimal in the way of magic items that this could just make things harder for them to remotely catch up. I've been playing Kiralenn for going on 2 years at next FebFeast, and I was still pleased as punch to get my hands on a 4pt magic item this event. It's only my second one since I've been playing. Though my elvensteel sword puts me way ahead of the game on even newer folk, I'm still at a level where I'm scraping my coppers together for a grilled cheese, because I built an Ornamenter and I can only make a 4pt item with my current build, so my target demographic are new and low level charactors like myself. It'd be kind of sad for me if we were to gimp the system in such a way that low level and craftsfolk, and low level craftsfolk, get boned. Just saying..

 

8^/

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Rituals go out as loot. They have expensive component requirements. There are few ways for parties walking around with stacks of coin to spend it outside of role playing paying dancers and call girls.

 

They are powerful consumables. Your PC is not made less cool in the long run by another player buying and using powerful consumables. This is a high end way to get something for players with dragon hoards that is well worth the coin, but doesn't add to the piles of permanent magic items in play.

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I wasn't talking about the ritual idea. I was talking about the original idea of the thread where magic items get nerfed hard, and everyone gets stuck in item-status because they're always trying to recharge what they have, and can't ever afford anything new, or an idea where magic items are taxed and now it's even harder for new players to afford them because they're hardly making any coin to start with and were barely able to afford what they've got.

 

8^)

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I wasn't talking about the ritual idea. I was talking about the original idea of the thread where magic items get nerfed hard, and everyone gets stuck in item-status because they're always trying to recharge what they have, and can't ever afford anything new, or an idea where magic items are taxed and now it's even harder for new players to afford them because they're hardly making any coin to start with and were barely able to afford what they've got.

 

8^)

Gotcha. :)

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