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Starting packages A blatant insult to 'The Maths' Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Papa Goob 

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 06:46 PM

A new person coming to game ostensibly enters the game with 8 skill points (provided there's a background story) and an idea for his character. Usually, it takes 10-15 levels to reach the point where your skills finally reflect your initial idea. What I'd like to propose are some starting packages that offer reduced skill buys for level 1s and 2s ONLY.

As we accrue levels, and eventually get killed off, we keep half our levels, and re-enter the game at a level above 1 or 2. But for newbies, they have to slog it out for a good long while to get to a point where they can participate effectively. Packages might give them an initial leg up with their first character. I'm not advocating for a huge point disparity, but a small one. Additionally, if we model these packages on familiar "classes", this might help newbies acclimate to our game.

Examples:

The "Thief" package: Buyable for 6 build points

Pick Locks - 2 points normally
Disarm trap - 2 points normally
Dual 30" - 2 points normally
Estimate Value - 2 point normally
Magic Lock - 1 point normally
1 power point - 1 point normally

The "Barbarian" package: Buyable for 6 points
Body 1 - 1 point normally
Body 2 - 2 points normally
Melee training - 2 points normally
Melee Proficency - 3 points normally
Great weapon training - 2 points normally

The "Mage" package: Buyable for 6 points
Identify Magic - 2 points normally
Lore - 1 point normally
Read Magic - 2 points normally
2 power points - 2 points normally
Magic armor - 1 point normally
Magic strike - 1 point normally
Heal Body - 1 point normally


The particulars of these packages could be tweaked, renamed, whatever. This might be a bad idea, but I thought I'd float it out there.
"I don't mind telling you I have no idea what any of the words in that last sentence meant. This is the problem with the youth of today: too much time inventing nonsense words, not enough time taking a bullet in the lung defending a hill. I don't have to know what the hell twitters and texting and body sprays are to understand that they're not the sort of thing men should be engaged in. Like conversations, or painting things that aren't a house.

The following is a short list of things men should be engaged in, at all times:

1. Getting a haircut
2. Yelling
3. Digesting ribs
4. Hill defense

At any rate, enjoy your pretty portraits, Fried Green Tomatoes. Don't cry all over 'em when you're painting pictures of poems tonight, or you might electrocute yourselves." -- TF Soldier.
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#2 User is offline   Balder 

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 08:30 PM

i think thats a really good idea
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#3 User is offline   hivemind 

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 09:12 PM

If we're not allowing people to transfer in characters from compatible systems precisely because we don't want the existing players to feel slighted, why should we allow this?

8 Skill Points is enough for two Body, Martial, Magic Armor and two power, or many other permutations. That's plenty to start with.

Also, these "packages" sound like "classes" to me. We're a classless system.
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#4 User is offline   Kender 

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 09:53 PM

They all seem to be easily available by level 2-3.
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#5 User is offline   ubergeek2012 

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 09:58 PM

Seems pretty unnecessary to me. If you have a concept that absolutely needs stuff not available at levels 1-2 to work, then NPC a few games first.
-Bob Manning
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#6 User is offline   hivemind 

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 10:08 PM

View Postubergeek2012, on Oct 17 2007, 10:58 PM, said:

Seems pretty unnecessary to me. If you have a concept that absolutely needs stuff not available at levels 1-2 to work, then NPC a few games first.

Ditto.
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#7 User is offline   psiko 

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 01:50 AM

Yeah I agree 8 points is plenty at level 2. Classes are teh suck.

-Brian
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#8 User is offline   Coroth 

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 06:58 AM

Also, I like to look at the low levels as a "learning curve", unless your an experienced larper coming into our system, it is much easer learning the game and the rules when you dont have 25 different spells. skills and damages to remember.
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#9 User is offline   Vicious the Jester 

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 03:47 PM

My recommendation on this is to change the number of starting points at 1st level from 6 to 8. Then next season, instead of giving a free level to everyone for starting off the season, they get the 2 points retroactively and stay the same level. 6 points is rough. You can't play an ordained priest from Vlean with 6 pts, at 1st level. I know, you can NPC and such to start higher than 1st level...

I understand the flip side to this, I'm just offering it as an option other than the skill packages.

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#10 User is offline   Julie 

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 04:09 PM

I like the idea... as someone who sucks with the skill building and character design thing, having an initial starter set that is the basic building blocks for a class - even though this is a classless system - frames what I should be aiming for. Sure, everyone will then tailor it to their needs, but this is a direction, and it's so low of a level that I don't think it hurts the system or forces classes to be used.

I also agree with what you said about people not getting the build they want until higher levels - everyone I've heard discussing their next characters seems to think they won't even resemble their character concept until level 10-15. Looking at this, it only boosts the entry level player by maybe 4 skill points (a level?), and it would allow characters to come in at, what, essentially level 3 with a background instead of level 2? I think it's very newbie friendly.
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#11 User is offline   Kinger 

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 07:56 PM

View PostJulie, on Oct 18 2007, 09:09 PM, said:

I also agree with what you said about people not getting the build they want until higher levels - everyone I've heard discussing their next characters seems to think they won't even resemble their character concept until level 10-15. Looking at this, it only boosts the entry level player by maybe 4 skill points (a level?), and it would allow characters to come in at, what, essentially level 3 with a background instead of level 2? I think it's very newbie friendly.



That is an interesting statement. I know i myself am guilty of it. Instead of looking for the potential growth, we are looking at how we want our characters to end up, rather than how they get there. But lets face it. KoN is a game of survival..and its much easier to survive when you start in the middle of your character progression rather than the end.
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#12 User is offline   Kender 

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 08:44 PM

DAN'S RULES OF CHARACTER CREATION:

First: Find out what level you'll be starting at
Second: Figure out what skills you could afford
Third: Figure out a plan for your character, where you can start and where to go from there.

I started Atticus at level one with three power, heal body and heal limb. AND I LIKED IT.
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#13 User is offline   Papa Goob 

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 08:46 PM

Atticus walked uphill to healer school, both ways, in winter, without shoes, too.
"I don't mind telling you I have no idea what any of the words in that last sentence meant. This is the problem with the youth of today: too much time inventing nonsense words, not enough time taking a bullet in the lung defending a hill. I don't have to know what the hell twitters and texting and body sprays are to understand that they're not the sort of thing men should be engaged in. Like conversations, or painting things that aren't a house.

The following is a short list of things men should be engaged in, at all times:

1. Getting a haircut
2. Yelling
3. Digesting ribs
4. Hill defense

At any rate, enjoy your pretty portraits, Fried Green Tomatoes. Don't cry all over 'em when you're painting pictures of poems tonight, or you might electrocute yourselves." -- TF Soldier.
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#14 User is offline   Kender 

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 09:32 PM

View PostPapa Goob, on Oct 18 2007, 09:46 PM, said:

Atticus walked uphill to healer school, both ways, in winter, without shoes, too.

Yeah, and now I'm clubbing NCs for four magic with a big scary skull attached to sometihng called the Regalia of Dread.

I blame the earthkin.
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#15 User is offline   hivemind 

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 09:59 PM

Yeah, I mean, we all know having the uberpowers is a lot of fun, but at some point people have to pay some dues to get there or what's the point? There's no sense of accomplishment.

I enjoyed bringing Adimo from level 16 to 46 a lot more than starting Xhuhao Wei at level 26. I think I enjoyed starting Judge Vlad at level 1 even more than starting Adimo at 15 or 16. I was honestly kinda disappointed that I was going to start the Snow Goblin at 20-something because of our death reward rule. In point of fact, I argued for years against the death/retirement reward...
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#16 User is offline   psiko 

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 10:36 PM

You could have always just not used the xp...

-Brian
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#17 User is offline   hivemind 

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 10:38 PM

I was reluctant and mildly disappointed, not high and stupid...
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#18 User is offline   Ryft 

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 01:36 AM

Giving more build points to work with at lower levels does increase the potentials for character concepts. As a newb this is attractive to me.

I would say that as long as you don't feel useless at levels 1-3 the system is fine as it stands. I guess I'll be finding out for myself how a level 2 or 3 character stacks up.
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#19 User is offline   thunderstave 

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 10:35 PM

I like the small start theory. I do think it might be helpful to drop a descriptve paragraph somewhere about character concepts and relevant builds. We have some people who don't have years of experience at min/maxing or even gaming in general and just having a suggestive template might well be worth the few minutes it takes to construct. I think what Papa Goob already wrote could be applied to this.
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#20 User is offline   porthous 

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 05:30 PM

As a new guy I been reading a lot and it would be nice to have a post on this pc building guide lines for pc types and I want to earn my stripes but I do wish I had 1. More skill point to start I plan to NPC in September only to get a better feel and build xp
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