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Jenica

On PvP

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So, it's been a while since we had real PvP, and since Jaiquon's about to bring it to the surface for realsies, I wanted to say a few things. Not because I'm the expert or authority, but because we had a bunch of players who joined the game at a very particular moment, and I think these things need saying. I totally expect the rest of the people who were here for what I'm about to describe to chime in with their perspectives!

 

So, Once Upon A Time, a bunch of long term players banded together and came up with a totally cohesive party concept that I'll describe as "How Bad Can We Be, And What Will Everyone Else Do?" The Slatestones ripped through Pinedale and basically fucked shit up at will, and the rest of us proved insufficient to the task of stopping them.

 

After months of back and forth aggression and failed peace attempts and cold war politics, it all came to a head. The Slatestones took action.

 

5 PCs died in one night, the real kind of dead.

 

Tiberius Marius Ahenobarbus (JC)

Doolin (Will R.)

Brigid (Amy)

Eleos of Silverleaf (Jim)

Nasri of Oakhallow (Jenica)

 

The Slatestones kicked our asses, collectively, as a town. They proved how easily and how well thoughtfully-organized and systematic evil intent can gain a foothold and crush well-intentioned but wishy-washy and disorganized "good guys" who have way too much individual self-preservation for their own good. Lady Jade's orphanages are legendary. :)/>/> (At this point, let me say: Steve, Heather, Jordan, Jimmy, Todd, Rob, Wayde, and Brett were brilliant.)

 

And when it was over, we had a bunch of players who had taken their PC deaths with good grace, and a bunch of not-dead players who were exhausted by the PvP and not having fun anymore, and the players of the Slatestones agreed, for the good of the game, to retire. We collectively hit the reset button on the tone of the game.

 

And then a bunch of y'all showed up on the heels of that, and walked into a game that had just chosen to reset away from PvP. But those 5 weren't the first we'd lost to PvP -- Adimo, Drace, Omar, Vex, Moonfather, Rothgar, Thein -- they all went down to another PC's blade. And we never meant to stop PvP forever.

 

We just needed a break.

 

(And some of us needed to rebuild our kit. There are two full sets of character armor and garb in this house that got fully scrapped in one night. Starting over is spendy!)

 

So when you see PvP on the horizon, like I do, I hope that all of you who are newer than the Slatestone era don't think, "Oh, crap, we're gonna break something." You're not. I think this is just a natural return to a different kind of play.

 

So in my opinion, play on. :)/>/>

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Do keep in mind though, that now it's a bit more difficult to bring finality to a PC as quickly as then. So, if you're gonna do it, think before you leap. Or, don't think at all. That's fun too.

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having survived the slatestone vs town conflict i have got to say that it was the best and worst time for me all in one. while i was certain that i was never on the slatestones radar a few of my charectors friends and highly respected individuals were on thier radar or were one of the five pcded. while part of me misses the slatestones (OOC) the fact that they retired to keep the game fun and everything was by far the greatest show of how much we all care for this game.

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You have to remember, that PC killing is much harder now then it was then. No more Final Rest.

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Only if you're not clever about it. :)/> For example, Nasri. Given the circumstances, they had me dead no matter what spell they used. Hell, they didn't even need to final rest me, just dragging me off as they did would have worked fine. No one ever found her.

 

Not to give anyone any ideas.

 

I'm'a shut up now.

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I had a few conversations on this topic recently. They all boiled down to a few essential points:

 

1: I don't want to kill anyone's pc. They put a lot of hard work into it.

2: I don't want anyone to kill my pc. I put a lot of hard work into it.

3: Olov would kill anyone in the game if he were able to and if circumstances required without hesitation.

4: Olov is prepared to die if it's required and will put himself in harm's way if his Gods demand.

5: I find it terrifying and exciting that this is a game where actions matter and there are consequences to them. I wouldn't be so deeply involved or enjoy the game as much as I do if there wasn't the chance of pcd. It lends gravitas to every conversation and situation.

6: I hope that others feel similarly and wouldn't metagame in order to save their character's life if it isn't what their character would do.

 

Number 6 is one that I have personally had issues with before and try to overcome. I chose to make a fanatically devoted priest who doesn't fear death. That's hard to play man! On the other hand, some characters choose survival over all other issues. It's based on our characters and hopefully not on ourselves.

 

*Edit*

I also hope that no one gets emotionally hurt out of game by any issues pvp or inter-character. I have characters that I strongly dislike or hate in game that I love out of game.

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PvP is apart of the game, unfortunately... I hope everyone can keep their heads on their shoulders and not make or take anything personal.

 

If you really don't want to PvP, then I suggest you stay away from the fire. If you decide to chime in and act a certain way, you're going to be involved. period. A lot of the issues last time we had a huge PvP, was that it affected the entire town. 5 PCs were murdered and people couldn't find a justification to stay out of it, but also weren't having fun with the PvP, because the Slatestones could and probably would've eliminated the entire town since we were all so unorganized.....

 

The Slatestones are legendary and I'm proud to say I got to be apart of it, but I will be greatly upset if another group of PCs is forced to retire like they were. So please everyone, be smart about how your RPing and if you choose to RP a certain way, don't be hurt OOC by the results.

 

Note: Make sure, if you do decide to end someones life, that it's not completely cheesed... Make sure that you're 100% certain everything is done correctly. No rule flaws, not half-assed and nothing is on the fence... Nothing is more detrimental than someone feeling like they got cheated.

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In my humble opinion, PvP has a place in every game, otherwise things could/would get unrealistic quickly.

 

The Golden Rule is give everyone a chance and don't immediately set ambushes and literally 'gank' people without any Role Play. Role Play the conflict out. Have heated arguments, insult each other and make it clear that blood is going to be spilt. It makes it far more cinematic and enjoyable as opposed to doing no Role Play and just gang banging them randomly.

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My only real contribution to this thread is to remind the players who don't want to be involved that the deaths can still affect your PC, and it is in fact an excellent way you can help take the sting out of losing a PC for those players. Something as simple as a tombstone can help, something as profound as a new series of plots to avenge their deaths can help even more. Watching the Oddfellows react and respond to Ajax's death (sorry buddy), watching the town snarl and rage before DeSoto did himself in, witnessing Atticus disembowel the guys responsible for killing his friend, it's how we salute those characters and the efforts of their players. Don't skimp out. Make it matter.

 

Mark Smylie once said that the critical difference between the superhero genre and the fantasy genre is that in fantasy, protagonists die.. and stay dead. The rest is mostly just window dressing.

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6: I hope that others feel similarly and wouldn't metagame in order to save their character's life if it isn't what their character would do.

 

Number 6 is one that I have personally had issues with before and try to overcome. I chose to make a fanatically devoted priest who doesn't fear death. That's hard to play man! On the other hand, some characters choose survival over all other issues. It's based on our characters and hopefully not on ourselves.

 

This most certainly happens and is a perfectly necessary option at times. Zander would have and should have stormed right into the Slatestones if I played him the way I first thought of it. Unfortunately, I was absolutely not in a position to start a new character. It was just too expensive and I was forced to make a decision. I chose to change the path Zander was on. I stopped spouting religious zealotry and started pretend drinking. The original Zander would not have slept with a Dryad and the back and forth with Baldy (Pat) would have ended (either way) a long time ago.

 

I still kill every Skaven I see. I still run face first into undead. I still throw out a prayer here and there.

 

All that being said. I look forward to the PVP and feel like I can make a new kit and be happy with it in a reasonable amount time thse days. Part of me wishes that I had the resources back then that I have now. Zander really should have gone toe to toe with Azrael. (and died!)

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The best way to prepare yourself for PvP is to have a new character concept ready. When I lost my first PC to PvP, the anticipation of playing something new really helped me move on and continue enjoying the game.

 

We've seen a lot of people stop playing the game after losing their PC, and I think it's because they didn't have a backup concept ready to go. Do yourself a favor and develop an alt PC, just in case. The more prepared you are for the loss of your PC, the easier it is to cope with.

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The best way to prepare yourself for PvP is to have a new character concept ready. When I lost my first PC to PvP, the anticipation of playing something new really helped me move on and continue enjoying the game.

 

We've seen a lot of people stop playing the game after losing their PC, and I think it's because they didn't have a backup concept ready to go. Do yourself a favor and develop an alt PC, just in case. The more prepared you are for the loss of your PC, the easier it is to cope with.

 

Very much this. I have a character waiting on deck for the eventuality of my current PC's death. I even started gathering costume bits recently when I had thought a PvP confrontation was inevitable.

 

As for PvP in general: I don't like to make any distinction between a PC character and an NPC. Both are living people. Both have the capacity for evil or for goodness and should be handled on those merits. I would consider with equal weight putting to death a PC as I would any NPC and vice versa. It's wrong to think of the PC body as a team or the 'good guys' or that PCs in any way have special status because they are PCs.

 

PvP is a natural extent of roleplaying in an environment that allows player characters the run of the show, and is bound to happen when PC's have as diverse backgrounds and motivations as do ours.

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I'll chime in on this seeing as I think I was the first or one of the first PC casualties in regards to the Slatestones. I haven't been around game in a couple years unfortunately so I'll give a quick recap of my character death. To make a fairly long story short this is what happened-

 

My character (Thein) was persuaded by an IC and OOC friend to sell a certain dagger of awesomeness. When we met up to complete the sale I was knocked out by said friend and given over to the Slatestones. I was a double agent of sorts, spying on the Slatestones for the town whilst the Slatestones though I was spying on the town. Well that didn't turn out very well. My character was betrayed by his friend Scyriss (OOC Brett, you douche!). Needless to say, the Slatestones killed me and I was no more. Personally, I thought it was an awesome way to go out. I didn't see it coming at all which made the game seem that much more real to me. Sure it sucked that my character of two years was no more, but it's part of the game.

 

So to reiterate what others are saying, if you don't like PVP then make sure you consider that before you get caught to close to the fire. And even then, you never know if you're safe! So keep a back up PC ready, or maybe even a couple of them!

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Note: Make sure, if you do decide to end someones life, that it's not completely cheesed... Make sure that you're 100% certain everything is done correctly. No rule flaws, not half-assed and nothing is on the fence... Nothing is more detrimental than someone feeling like they got cheated.

 

This is super important. There needs to be no question whatsoever that someone got ganked correctly.

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I agree with Al about disliking making a distinction between PCs and NPCs. I feel that the line shouldn't be blurred ever… but in reality that is not functional. When looking out over a game and seeing PCs that have devoted time, energy and money into a character, as a player you must take responsibility to act with some level of respect. It takes caution and planning to turn your sights on someone in a game like this and I think as a responsible gamer we all owe some level of that to each other. I was very aware of what took place in this game before I even signed in for the first time, and I think what I came away with was that as a whole people enjoyed conflict and not warfare.

 

 

 

 

I have personally been filled with a taste for killing people at game, but in the end I settle my blood lust and look at the picture in a different way. What do i really gain? How else could I solve this issue, is combat the only option? Can I make my enemies pay in another way? What else can I do out of character? How else can I respond in character? I think it can be simple to retreat to a simple solution of killing someone to get rid of an issue, but take time to think about what it is your doing and how it will effect your character. When you are looking at the dead body of someone you have greeted season after season and their blood is on your hands it should spark a realization.

 

 

 

 

Npc killing I think should be viewed in a similar light. I personally have felt that a lot of Npcs die, when they shouldn't…. but it is a game and i think thats the joy of playing a game. its a hard pill to swallow sometimes because people can become unrealistic about the way they handle themselves IC, but I think a small amount of tension is lifted. Either way I don't think it's the place for emotions like rage or spite to well up in anyone we are all here to entertain each other and death is a natural part of that. I just think that the idea of it being a hack and slash video game needs to be put on the back burner. I don't ever want to be a part of 5 or 6 permanent character deaths…

 

 

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though neccero technically was killed by a pc it was his own choice due to his bad choices in the past. granted i was planning on killing him off anyways and already had my next charectore set to roll, it was still a hard pill to swallow. my current charector kills only when hes payed to or to defend himself. ooc i dont distringush pc from npc. with that said yes i agree that some true thought should be put in and it all be role played out and not cheesed when killing off someones pc.

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I only hug trees.

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What if all I have is wood?

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I'll trade you wood for sheep.

 

Wait....wrong game.

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I see what you did there.

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I see what you did there. :)

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Thought I'd drop some of my input in since I was one of the evil bastards. First let me say I agree 100% with Crimson. If you'd kill an npc for some reason, or avoid killing a pc for some other reason, you should still apply the same rules to either type of character.

 

I also think its a good time to bring up why we (collectively known as the Slatestones) did what we did. One motivation was that some of us had played goodie-two-shoe characters and wanted something different, at the same time there weren't any long term evil character (pc or otherwise) for a while. The last reason we did what we did was to break up some of the groups a bit so that people would be forced to mingle across the various cliques that form when new people come as a group.

 

One last thing to keep in mind before anyone does anything is to remember people have friends, and you don't want it to get to clampett and mccoy levels of revenge for the sake of the game. It's less interesting in town if your the only one there.

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